The Sensei-Senpai Relationship

[Steve]

I see your point and agree with your last sentence that taking over "work" duties without compensation can be questionable, depending on how extreme it is. There is a difference between "assisting with lower belts" (which IMO all belts should want to help out their juniors) and "taking over work duties."

But of all the duties of the senpai I listed, teaching is the least important, IMO.

Want to say that when I say "duties" they are not really a formal job description as "senpai" isn't awarded but is rather a position voluntarily assumed by the senior student out of custom, self-imposed obligation and loyalty and recognized by others in the dojo as such.

I get it, and this is one of those things that's as much cultural (as in national culture and also culture of the organization). I'm really just sharing my personal view. Speaking for myself, I am uncomfortable conflating a business relationship and a personal relationship, and this sensei/senpai relationship can very easily straddle the two.

It starts simply. Student pays money for lessons, and the instructor teaches those lessons. It starts to get muddles when, over time, the instructor imparts his ideas about loyalty, duty, and obligation (self-imposed or otherwise) such that senior students routinely donate their time and energy to the business in addition to paying for the privilege of the instruction.

The easy answer is to fairly compensate students who are taking on responsibilities beyond simply learning the art. I mean, just to be clear, it's not the increase in responsibility that seems off to me. It's expecting this (implicitly or explicitly) without any kind of reciprocity. The easy solution is to offer some kind of compensation.

Now, to be clear, if the school is more like a club... that's a very different arrangement. A lot of judo clubs around here are run as non-profits. Or dirty dog, I think doesn't charge for his lessons in the first place... runs more like a club. I have in mind commercial schools like your typical karate, BJJ, or TKD school.

 

[Buka]

With all a student has to go through to earn a black belt with us, I couldn’t live with myself charging them a fee. Or charging a brown belt for that matter. I might ask them to clean the dojo every now and again, but it’s good for them.

But it works both ways. Other than paying for Jits lessons, I haven’t been charged to train since the nineteen seventies.

 

[O'Malley]

These two definitions are a little different. As the father/creator there is only one soke ever for the style. As the head of the style, there can be a generational passing down of the title. I'm good with either of these.

But personally, and for several other more senior than myself that could claim the title, it is reserved for the founder, Shimabuku Tatsuo. This is not because of any technically correct definition but out of respect and humbleness.

When I started, Tatsuo was alive, and the system had no competing branches or organizations. So, who was soke was not a question that needed to be asked. He was the only soke. This is probably why I still refer to him as "Soke."

What I am not good with is the subversion of this lofty title by applying it to the head of an organization. This enables almost anyone to be a soke. The idea of walking into a style's conference/symposium and having a score of soke milling about is distasteful to me.

To clarify, the styles where I have seen the term used only have one sōke at a time, so it would be impossible to walk into a seminar of one of those styles and encounter more than one sōke. It is linked to a traditional Japanese transmission system called "iemoto" (roughly translated as "things that belong within the house") where the ownership and leadership of an affair (be it a family business, or a martial arts organisation where all the schools are formally under the authority of the "headmaster/sōke") is transmitted as a hereditary title. So when the founder/sōke dies, his successor (often a son/relative) becomes the second sōke.

The largest global aikido organisation (the Aikikai Foundation) has an equivalent title (dōshu) and follows the iemoto transmission. In fact, the founder, Morihei Ueshiba, asked Minoru Mochizuki twice to become his successor. Mochizuki refused each time because one of the implications was that he'd marry the master's daughter. Ueshiba finally married his daughter to the famous kendo/kenjutsu expert Kiyoshi Nakakura and stated grooming him into his successor. Nakakura eventually divorced and the Aikikai went to Ueshiba's son.

 

[isshinryuronin]

With all a student has to go through to earn a black belt with us, I couldn’t live with myself charging them a fee. Or charging a brown belt for that matter. I might ask them to clean the dojo every now and again, but it’s good for them.

But it works both ways. Other than paying for Jits lessons, I haven’t been charged to train since the nineteen seventies.

Our experience is much different than most. Steve's right about it being cultural. Sure, there were pure business-oriented schools in the 60's and 70's, but there were commercial schools that managed not to be run like commercial schools and followed a mentorship model. Things were not simply black or white, it was the time of gray.

My sensei would take one or two of us out for breakfast or lunch and talk to us about Master Shimabuku or sex (not in the same conversation). While things were pretty formal during class, outside of class was a different story. It was easy to have this separation as Bob was Sensei. Without ego, he never thought about using his position for his own purposes and the familiarity we enjoyed out of class never threatened the respect we had for him.

But I take nothing away from Steve's concerns; they are too often well founded. I hope others can find a dojo where they can feel at home, learn MA, and not have to worry about being taken advantage of or BS politics.

 

[Stuarto]

These two definitions are a little different. As the father/creator there is only one soke ever for the style. As the head of the style, there can be a generational passing down of the title. I'm good with either of these.

But personally, and for several other more senior than myself that could claim the title, it is reserved for the founder, Shimabuku Tatsuo. This is not because of any technically correct definition but out of respect and humbleness.

When I started, Tatsuo was alive, and the system had no competing branches or organizations. So, who was soke was not a question that needed to be asked. He was the only soke. This is probably why I still refer to him as "Soke."

What I am not good with is the subversion of this lofty title by applying it to the head of an organization. This enables almost anyone to be a soke. The idea of walking into a style's conference/symposium and having a score of soke milling about is distasteful to me.

With all a student has to go through to earn a black belt with us, I couldn’t live with myself charging them a fee. Or charging a brown belt for that matter. I might ask them to clean the dojo every now and again, but it’s good for them.

But it works both ways. Other than paying for Jits lessons, I haven’t been charged to train since the nineteen seventies.

That's very reasonable, almost all the schools I know of in the area charge for training. My school is very reasonably priced and offers good quality training. I was wary of ending up at a McDojo but my Sensei has made me put work in to go for my first belt test, and I have learned much. I am looking forward to seeing what he has in store for me

 

[Buka]

That's very reasonable, almost all the schools I know of in the area charge for training. My school is very reasonably priced and offers good quality training. I was wary of ending up at a McDojo but my Sensei has made me put work in to go for my first belt test, and I have learned much. I am looking forward to seeing what he has in store for me

It was easier back in the day. Both the city and state had programs for young people that couldn’t afford training. The first responders that trained at my place for free turned me on to them. And I didn’t have to pay for heat in the winter. Everything was pretty much handed to me. So I took advantage of every program out there.