The Root Causes of Crime

[Makalakumu]

This article is about the root causes of crime...

http://www.preventingcrime.net/library/Causes_of_Crime.pdf

It lists the following...

1. Poverty
2. Social environment
3. Family structure

Thus, does it follow that government programs that reduce poverty, improve social environment (improve education), and bolster families would reduce crime?

Wouldn't cutting programs that do this increase crime?

 

[mrhnau]

Poverty:
Was the USSR crime free? Cuba? Redistribution of wealth via the government sounds a good deal like communism. Even if communism somehow stamped out crime, I'd still not want to live there. To what extent should we strive for being crime free? Is that the paramount goal? How about forcing everyone to stay home and imposing martial law? Limit our liberties all for the proclaimation that we are crime free? With freedom comes the possibility of crime, so I refuse to use crime as a metric of health in society. Sure, lets try to limit crime, but there is a practical limit to how low it will go w/out extreme measures geared towards limiting our freedom or barbaric treatment of criminals.

[Sarcasm] Imagine, all those hard working people who spend their life working hard, getting educated and struggling to succeed. Lets take a good portion of what they earn, and give it to those who did nothing to earn it. They don't deserve to keep what they earned. [\Sarcasm]

Of course, there are extreme circumstances when the government should do something, but I think its alot less than it currently is doing... The problem is that dropping or reducing social programs tends to make politicians unhappy since constituants don't tend to like it. I believe that we should try and help people who want to learn and grow, those who don't desire to stay in poverty. Part of what we are doing is providing free education (k-12) and public universities partly paid at tax payers expense. Thats part of what makes America great, the opportunity to rise and excel. A man is not limited from where he is from or what he looks like, rather where he wants to go and what he can do with the tools he has been blessed with. Is it an easy path? Seldom, but hard work and desire takes you a long way. Its not easy, nor is it impossible. Is throwing money at a man who does not want to work "bolstering" his family? Is he not teaching his family dependancy? My dad worked 60+ hours a week to make sure we were provided for. As a result, I've got that same work ethic. I'll be providing for my family, and don't desire having government officials trying to take over that role.

Family structure:
Government should dictate certain family characteristics? From the same government that took discipline out of public schools? Don't want a beaurocrat trying to enforce any family structure or stability. Thats totally not there job. Not even sure what the government could do to preserve "family structure"! I believe most family structure is inherited, your family is somewhat similiar to what you grow up with. Of course, modifications can be made, but its often the case that many problems are inherited (drunkards often have kids who drink, people abused tend to abuse, though of course this is not a hard and fast rule). Helping deal with those problems might show merit, but they often show up long after the incident. At that point, the damage is mostly done. Combing society at large to identify problem people seems dangerous and starts impinging on freedoms.

The "community" helps raise my children? Are you serious? I'm not sure where everyone lives, but I don't want my "neighbors" to help raise my children (when I have them). There is family and close friends, but I do not consider them "community" or "society at large". Of course, you build relationships and friendships, but its not the role of the world at large to raise my children. Thats my familes responsibility.

Social environment:
Everything they listed as a social cause of crime is related to the individual, and not enforcable, with the possible exception of lack of services. You can't force leadership in the community, support of friends and family, ect.. I suppose you could enforce equality, but I've had horrible experiences with that personally, and I'm not sure I desire enforcement in that area, but thats another topic

Overall:
I don't think throwing money and new programs at problems is the smartest way to change things. if you want to change family structure, you need to inspire families to change. Throwing money at the problems just ensures its dependancy. New programs seldom go away, and find new ways to require more money. We had problems in society before government got big, but the problems were generally dealt with on a local basis. My parents poor or sick? They would come live w/ me. Others in the family would help when possible. Both parents need to work? Kids can stay w/ grandmother, aunt, ect.. Did this require a vast government program taking a large chunk of our tax dollars?

Anyways, as you can probably tell, I'm not the hugest fan of big government hehehe

 

[Makalakumu]

Anyways, as you can probably tell, I'm not the hugest fan of big government hehehe

I can understand this, however, I would have to change the statement to, "I'm not a fan of useless government" in order for it apply to me.

I'm very interested in whether countries that have lower crime rates then we do are lower because they do something regarding poverty, education, and families.

I think that places where one finds a real living wage being paid, free public education, and limited workweeks with subsidized childcare are going to have a marked decrease in the amount of crime.

 

[Tgace]

People feeling they have the right to...and no fear/remorse over..taking from others against their will.

Thats the root cause.

 

[MisterMike]

If we've learned one thing from Enron, Microsoft, Martha Stewart, et. al., it is that crime is not limited to the poor. It has more to do with the greedy, IMHO.

 

[mrhnau]

I can understand this, however, I would have to change the statement to, "I'm not a fan of useless government" in order for it apply to me.

I'm very interested in whether countries that have lower crime rates then we do are lower because they do something regarding poverty, education, and families.

I think that places where one finds a real living wage being paid, free public education, and limited workweeks with subsidized childcare are going to have a marked decrease in the amount of crime.

public education is free (well, tax payers pay for it), and most public colleges are mostly free. Got that one.

Limited workweek. For the most part, got that one. Don't know alot of people working 60+ hours a week unless they own their own businesses, and those are typically not the people committing a ton of crimes. Mostly got that one.

Subsidized child care. Alot of companies do that. I don't think government should force that, but thats just me. Its just an incentive.

The living wage is a tough one. I know what you mean, but many businesses are run with the assumption of a certain level of expenses. If companies like McD's are forced to pay $10 as opposed to something like $6.50, there will be problems. Prices will have to go up, or less people will be hired. Most of the lower paying jobs are generally designed as entry level jobs and cater towards young people, not something you wind up doing for 50 years. When I was not making much money, I had to live differently. Had to share a bedroom at times. You do what you have to if money is not present. otherwise, get an education and try to improve your future. Find a different job w/ some degree of opportunity.

What would you choose to label "useless"? What is useless to you might not be useless to me. What is useless 50 years ago may be purposeful now and vice versa. For instance, there was a legitimate reason Social Security was started back in the 30's (I believe? correct me if wrong). Do we still have the same conditions? But like most social programs, its practically impossible to get out of now without seeming heartless. Regardless of the program, eliminating a program is going to make someone unhappy....

I'd be interested in seeing stats on your query. That would be interesting. What would you do with the results? Lets take a heavily socialized country, like France. Would we want to mimic our country after a heavily socialized country to mimic their crime rates? What would you think if our crime rates were pretty decent compared to other countries? Need to consider other factors too. In some Islamic countries, the penalties are quite tough. You steal, you lose a hand. Steal again, you lose the other. Find some way to steal after that? Lose your head. Stealing is pretty low in such countries... care to mimic that?

A somewhat easy solution regarding taxes... need more taxes? start taxing illegal immigrants. If they are using our social services (police, well far, public education), then they should be paying for it. If you work in the US, you should be taxed. That gets me about as upset as having to raise taxes!

I don't think government should act as an ideal father figure. Dad's/mom's should do that.

 

[TonyM.]

I think crime is a lack of personal integrity of which everyone is ultimately responsible for their own.

 

[Makalakumu]

People feeling they have the right to...and no fear/remorse over..taking from others against their will.

Culture produces that behavior. What produced the culture? Is there such a thing as the "Culture of Poverty"?

 

[tsdclaflin]

The more freedom, the more potential for crime.

The more control from the government, the less crime.

For example, Great Britain has fewer gun crimes because very few are allowed to own guns.

Non-democratic countries that have swift and severe punishment for crimes, I suspect have less crime (no stats to back that up).

At the risk of being spiritual, selfishness as at the root of most evil.

My 2 cents,

 

[Makalakumu]

I thought I'd contribute some statistics to this discussion. See this site for Crime Comparison Statistics by Country.

See this link for a comparison of total adults prosecuted for crimes.

These statistics show that the US has the highest crime rates of the countries compared. Many other comparable large industrialized countries that have provided measures to reduce poverty, increase education, and strengthen families have marked lower crime rates.

However, there are some countries that have lots poverty and low crime rates.

 

[Tgace]

The Root Cause of Crime

http://patriot.net/~crouch/adr/kids.html

CHILDREN NEED FATHERS, STUDY SHOWS



Most states have focused almost exclusively on welfare-to-work strategies in response to 1996 federal welfare reforms. But this doesn't address the greatest danger to the well-being of children in the United States, says a Hudson Institute study: the fact that nearly four out of every 10 children are being raised without their fathers.

The states should restructure their programs to promote fatherhood and marriage, say researchers Wade Horn and Andrew Bush. Building strong families would improve the life chances of children and help rebuild low-income communities.

*Among long-term prison inmates, 70 percent grew up without fathers, as did 60 percent of rapists and 75 percent of adolescents charged with murder.

* Fatherless children are three times more likely to fail school, require psychiatric treatment and commit suicide as adolescents.

*They are also up to 40 times more likely to experience child abuse compared with children growing up in two-parent families.
...
Source: Wade Horn and Andrew Bush, "Fathers, Marriage, and Welfare Reform,"
Hudson Institute Executive Briefing, 1997, Hudson Institute, Herman Kahn Center, 5395 Emerson Way, Indianapolis, IN 46226, (317) 545-1000.
Quoted and condensed from National Center for Policy Analysis
Policy Digest, Monday, July 28, 1997 -- "Making Ideas Change the World" -- [email protected]

 

[Cryozombie]

I think that the cause of crime is dependant on the nature of the Crime.

For example, if someone kills a woman's husband because he desires her, and thinks he can make her come to him when the Husband is gone... Reduction of Poverty would not stop that. I think that even Family Structure, and Social Environment may not be able to prevent that, if it's what he truly had in mind...

Its a crime of both Passion and Greed...

Now, lets say I live in a reletivley dangerous neighborhood (not much of a stretch there) and I choose to break the gun laws and carry a firearm illegally to protect myself... Upgrading the social Environment in my neighborhood might very well prevent that crime...

So... I do think its very subjective on what causes crime.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Everyone likes to avoid the obvious...we are all simply animals, higher evolved primates (though some would disagree with higher evolved). Many of us have adapted to the point where we are willing to accept the authority of the group...some of us have not. Those that have not are either called criminals or visionaries, depending on whether their actions moves us forward, or simply serves the more base biological desires. The triggers for crime (poverty, social learning, single parents) are merely triggers, they are not the root causes. The root causes lie in genes that were not originally designed to yield to abstract lawful authority.

Through millenia of conditioning, we have forced human beings to evolve in to more malliable citizens, but some of us refuse to conform, for better or worse. The most incorrigable, we used to kill and remove their genes from the gene pool, now we warehouse them for long periods of time. From time to time we have delusions of granduer and believe that we can "rehabilitate" them, and occassionally we even succeed, convincing us we have actually found AN answer, though it's never universally applicable.

In short, crime is nothing more than people who refuse, for whatever reason, to obey the laws that we as a collective society decide to enforce. Sometimes we'll think we found an answer to crime, but as long as we are all merely animals with clothes, some of us will still rail against the rules the rest of us live by.

Some of us are born with a desire to have more than society saws we can possess, whether that be wealth, women or the lives of others.

 

[Makalakumu]

Do a little thought experiment with the city in which you live. Get a map and circle the areas that poor people live and circle the areas that are more well to do. Next, see if you can affix crime statistics to the areas circled. Can anyone predict the results?

Areas with poverty will have marked increases in crime. At the very least, crime and poverty are intrinsically tied. How would one show that poverty is a causal factor for crime? Case studies. Look at cities that boomed economicaly and busted. What happened to the crime rates? They went up.

Again, wouldn't reducing poverty go a long way in reducing crime? Catholic Digest published an article on this a ways back. The Church seems to think so. In fact, the article quoted the Pope as saying that crime was more a result of poverty and less of selfishness and wickedness.

 

[Makalakumu]

Everyone likes to avoid the obvious...we are all simply animals, higher evolved primates (though some would disagree with higher evolved). Many of us have adapted to the point where we are willing to accept the authority of the group...some of us have not. Those that have not are either called criminals or visionaries, depending on whether their actions moves us forward, or simply serves the more base biological desires. The triggers for crime (poverty, social learning, single parents) are merely triggers, they are not the root causes. The root causes lie in genes that were not originally designed to yield to abstract lawful authority.

Through millenia of conditioning, we have forced human beings to evolve in to more malliable citizens, but some of us refuse to conform, for better or worse. The most incorrigable, we used to kill and remove their genes from the gene pool, now we warehouse them for long periods of time. From time to time we have delusions of granduer and believe that we can "rehabilitate" them, and occassionally we even succeed, convincing us we have actually found AN answer, though it's never universally applicable.

In short, crime is nothing more than people who refuse, for whatever reason, to obey the laws that we as a collective society decide to enforce. Sometimes we'll think we found an answer to crime, but as long as we are all merely animals with clothes, some of us will still rail against the rules the rest of us live by.

Some of us are born with a desire to have more than society saws we can possess, whether that be wealth, women or the lives of others.

How does this theory explain the difference in the statistics posted above? Why does the US have such a high crime rate in comparison to other countries according to this theory?

In my opinion, if this theory is true, then we could expect to see even crime statistics from country to country. Every Homo Sapians shares very similar DNA and anomolous differences that you describe tend to happen regularly and randomly in a population.

 

[Tgace]

Throw money at the problem...never works. Being poor is no excuse for being a criminal.

I suppose at least then you have criminals with LCD televisions, X boxes and nice spinner rims for the car...

 

[Cryozombie]

I suppose at least then you have criminals with LCD televisions, X boxes and nice spinner rims for the car...

Ah, Hanging out in my neighborhood I see.

I love seeing the "Ghetto Trash" pull up in their mercedes and then pay for their food with a food card. (the new food stamps)

Somedays, I think I SHOULD sell drugs for a living.

*sigh*

 

[Makalakumu]

Being poor is no excuse for being a criminal...

Have you ever been poor?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_poverty

The following are some of the cultural rules unique to poverty:

• While criteria for middle class decisions often relate to work and achievement, generational poverty class decisions are often based on the importance of one's personality to sustain multiple relationships.
• Time occurs in the present moment and future implications are seldom considered; being proactive, setting goals and planning ahead are not a part of generational poverty's culture.
• Extra money is shared among an individual's support system rather than using the extra money to "get ahead". From a poverty perspective, a person will never "get ahead" so it is important to share fortune with others to ensure one will be assisted in a time of need.
• A male's identity is often tied to being a lover and fighter while a "good" woman is expected to take care of her man and children.
• For many in generational poverty, jail is a part of life; unlike the middle class, a lack of resources means a lack of resources to avoid jail.

This list is by no means complete. So please share your views.

1. Oscar Lewis (January 1998). "The culture of poverty". Society 35:7

 

[Tgace]

A government will never have the power to wipe out poverty. People have the choice to decide what they are going to do with their lives and how they are going to live them. In this country, a poor person on welfare is living at a high standard of living compared to other countries like China and North Korea. If a person drops out of high school, commits crimes, or ruins his life with drugs or alcohol, he will quite likely end up in poverty. This is the choice he made, and our government does not control these types of personal life choices.

 

[Tgace]

So should there be a "poverty defense" for violent crime???