The Martial Arts Mentality

[MJS]

While reading a thread on another forum, I came across this link to a video clip. Now, I'll start by saying that this thread is in no way meant to put down the parties on this clip. The clip sparked a bit of a side debate from the original topic, so I'm strictly using it as a reference point.

So, after viewing this clip, some members thought that there was a hint of 'brain washing' or 'cult like' thinking going on. Basically, one group felt that what was being said, was making people think that there is no other way, other than what was being said on the clip. If you didn't follow that line of 'thinking' then basically, you'd be a crappy martial artist.

So that leads me to the following: Do you feel that instructors try to make their students think that there is no other way except their way? Do you think that they don't want their students to think outside the box and view other methods of training?

 

[exile]

I can only go by my own instructor, Mike, and he's very open to different arts and insights transferred from one art to another. He's a 5th Dan KKW, but he's also studied Hapkido and Arnis seriously, and has advanced ranking in Gumdo as well. I can't imagine him advancing anything like the doctrinaire, my-way-or-the-highway kind of position you're alluding to...

 

[MJS]

I can only go by my own instructor, Mike, and he's very open to different arts and insights transferred from one art to another. He's a 5th Dan KKW, but he's also studied Hapkido and Arnis seriously, and has advanced ranking in Gumdo as well. I can't imagine him advancing anything like the doctrinaire, my-way-or-the-highway kind of position you're alluding to...

Likewise, my teachers are very open minded as well. There seems to be that never ending TMA vs. MMA/sport debate, where each group is so stuck in their ways and refuse to budge. They both fail to realize that aspects from each can be applied to the other.

 

[Kacey]

My sahbum freely admits that much of our hol-sin-sul techniques (releases, throws, controls, etc.) came from Hapkido, rather than Taekwon-Do. He also knows that I want to cross-train in a different art at some point, and supports that, on the basis that I have learned enough about TKD to not confuse what I learn in another art with what I'm already doing - something that's a lot harder when you have a shorter experience in a particular art; the time frame would vary depending on the person.

So that leads me to the following: Do you feel that instructors try to make their students think that there is no other way except their way? Do you think that they don't want their students to think outside the box and view other methods of training?

As an instructor myself, I compare and contrast things from different arts all the time, usually to demonstrate to my students that there are different ways of doing things, that other people have had the same questions, and that, like my students, different people come up with different responses.

 

[thardey]

Everybody's going to teach the best they know, so, there should be a little bit of "I believe this is the best answer" kind of confidence. However, calling people who don't do what you do "wussies" or something like that, to me, smacks of insecurity.

It reminds me of the jocks in high school. To the football players, only football make you "a man". To the wrestlers, the same. etc, etc. Each could come up with a good set of reasons why their sport was "tough" (personally, I always thought cross-country came at the top of that list, but that's probably cause I couldn't run.) But that was fine, until they started saying that other sports weren't tough.

So, this guy says that "cheating" is for wusses? That only people who "roll on the mat" are confident? Fine -- I "roll" with my Glock .45. Does that mean I'm scared? Absolutely! I wouldn't be pulling the trigger if I didn't think I was way out of my league.

Of course, on the other hand, only "real men" carry anything larger than a 9mm, right? Whatever.

My instructor teaches what he knows, which is sport sparring, some self-defense, and katas. I pursued "street fighting", and weapons. He is glad for that, because I can add to the curriculum.

I'm not practicing "street fighting" for a situation where I have an advantage. I'm practicing it for when I'm in serious trouble. So, I'm a firm believer in cheating. If that makes me a wuss, so be it.

 

[Wild Bill]

Same old crap. MMA RULES! Reality based and military guys are weak nerds who are afraid to get on the mat. Traditional styles are LARPing. BLAH BLAH BLAH! I have heard it all before and am not interested. Here is some truth that people don't seem to get no matter what side of the argument they are on.

• Freestyle hard sparing, with empty hands and weapons at all ranges of combat is neccessary if you want to be a good fighter. Being in the best physical condition you can be is a good thing.
• Scenario training, use of force law, and the acknolegement that the street is not a sporting event with rules is necessary for self defense in a world where you are likely to encounter multiple opponents with weapons and a criminal justice system that gives more rights to criminals than victems.
• All of the techniques in both MMA and reality based fighting systems come from tradional styles. There is nothing new under the sun. There is nothing wrong with respecting the people and cultures that passed down the techniques we use today.

Even MMA has a culture. Many MMA fanatices wear the same type of spandex outfits. Most who participate are young athletic guys who like to challenge themselves physicaly. I just wish they would promote themselves more like sportsman and less like violent thugs. Some people think that it is cool to promote themselves as street fighters. Every real street fighter that I have met was a violent criminal.​

Lastly, this guy keeps using vulgar language and accuseing other instructors of having a bad attitude. I would like to suggest that he should not refer to other people as dicks if he is going to act in a similar penile fashion.​

 

[woot]

I would bet that the guy talking in the video was the kid who got his head dunked in the toilet.

 

[IcemanSK]

I can only go by my own instructor, Mike, and he's very open to different arts and insights transferred from one art to another. He's a 5th Dan KKW, but he's also studied Hapkido and Arnis seriously, and has advanced ranking in Gumdo as well. I can't imagine him advancing anything like the doctrinaire, my-way-or-the-highway kind of position you're alluding to...

Ok, I had to laugh, exile. The simple fact that you call your instructor by his first name says A LOT about his attitude toward teaching. :bangahead:

I've had instructors that had really strong feeling, but none like the "my-way-or-the-highway" attitude about things. (In other words, they were/are good people).

 

[MA-Caver]

Cobra Kai lives!

 

[Dr John M La Tourrette]

Everybody's going to teach the best they know, so, there should be a little bit of "I believe this is the best answer" kind of confidence. However, calling people who don't do what you do "wussies" or something like that, to me, smacks of insecurity.

I really did enjoy reading your high level and analytical post.
You covered both sides of that coin in a very intelligent manner.
Thank you.
Dr. John M. La Tourrette

 

[MJS]

Everybody's going to teach the best they know, so, there should be a little bit of "I believe this is the best answer" kind of confidence. However, calling people who don't do what you do "wussies" or something like that, to me, smacks of insecurity.

It reminds me of the jocks in high school. To the football players, only football make you "a man". To the wrestlers, the same. etc, etc. Each could come up with a good set of reasons why their sport was "tough" (personally, I always thought cross-country came at the top of that list, but that's probably cause I couldn't run.) But that was fine, until they started saying that other sports weren't tough.

So, this guy says that "cheating" is for wusses? That only people who "roll on the mat" are confident? Fine -- I "roll" with my Glock .45. Does that mean I'm scared? Absolutely! I wouldn't be pulling the trigger if I didn't think I was way out of my league.

Of course, on the other hand, only "real men" carry anything larger than a 9mm, right? Whatever.

My instructor teaches what he knows, which is sport sparring, some self-defense, and katas. I pursued "street fighting", and weapons. He is glad for that, because I can add to the curriculum.

I'm not practicing "street fighting" for a situation where I have an advantage. I'm practicing it for when I'm in serious trouble. So, I'm a firm believer in cheating. If that makes me a wuss, so be it.

I agree. Seems like they suffer from the Superman mentality, where one feels that the art that they study makes them invincible or superior to everyone else. Now, some could say that they're right because of the success in the ring. So that being said, I can see where someone would have that mentality that what they're doing is the best.

 

[MJS]

Same old crap. MMA RULES! Reality based and military guys are weak nerds who are afraid to get on the mat. Traditional styles are LARPing. BLAH BLAH BLAH! I have heard it all before and am not interested. Here is some truth that people don't seem to get no matter what side of the argument they are on.

• Freestyle hard sparing, with empty hands and weapons at all ranges of combat is neccessary if you want to be a good fighter. Being in the best physical condition you can be is a good thing.
• Scenario training, use of force law, and the acknolegement that the street is not a sporting event with rules is necessary for self defense in a world where you are likely to encounter multiple opponents with weapons and a criminal justice system that gives more rights to criminals than victems.
• All of the techniques in both MMA and reality based fighting systems come from tradional styles. There is nothing new under the sun. There is nothing wrong with respecting the people and cultures that passed down the techniques we use today.

Great points. Regarding the above points. I have to wonder how much the various arts really up their training. In other words, focusing on light contact, point sparring, may not be the best if you really want to be a good fighter. Additionally, despite what some people will say, I have not seen a solid weapon based program in many grappling arts. If you're going to bill something as an ultimate or complete system, I'd think that would be an important area.

The second point: Yet people will say that the transition from ring to street is easy. I suppose this all comes down to how one gears their training.

Third: You're right. All the punches, kicks, etc. came from TMAs, yet its the delivery system of each that is different.

Even MMA has a culture. Many MMA fanatices wear the same type of spandex outfits. Most who participate are young athletic guys who like to challenge themselves physicaly. I just wish they would promote themselves more like sportsman and less like violent thugs. Some people think that it is cool to promote themselves as street fighters. Every real street fighter that I have met was a violent criminal.

Agreed.​

Lastly, this guy keeps using vulgar language and accuseing other instructors of having a bad attitude. I would like to suggest that he should not refer to other people as dicks if he is going to act in a similar penile fashion.

True, true, true.

 

[KempoGuy06]

i didnt watch the clip but I want to answer the question first then I will watch the clip and respond again.

My instructor actually discourages think "in a straight line" so to speak. He shows some material and says "now this is the way its done here and for teaching purposes but obviously it can be modified and adapted" he will tell us to then work what he showed us and then to come up with some variations. he will then come back and review them with us.

He only started this with me about mid way through my purple belt (im a blue belt now). Ive improved vastly because of this approach. Its the same for me in school, I am taught a certain way to do a math problem so to speak, and to approach the solution from a certain angle more often than not its hard for me and I have to adapt my approach to the problem and solve the answer in a way that is good for me.

B

 

[jim777]

Cobra Kai lives!

:lol: Exactly what I was thinking