The Kukki/WTF V-Neck dobok. When did it come into use?

[Chrisoro]

When looking at older photos of TKD practice in Korea, the practitioners used regular white karate gis. Do anyone know exactly when the current V-neck dobok came into use as standard training attire for Kukki/WTF TaeKwonDo?


1953

During the Vietnam War (original Korean Tigers):

1970 at Ji Do Kwan HQ:

 

[IcemanSK]

I believe they were introduced by Kukkiwon in 1978, but they took awhile to catch on. I began Taekwondo in 1982 and was given a cross-over dobok then. A few black belts wore v-necks then, but not many. By 1985, when I became 1st Dan, they were pretty much mandatory. The only ones that wore cross-overs by then were Korean masters & grandmasters.

 

[Chrisoro]

Thanks! Do you happen to have any links to more info on the rationale of the introduction of the v-neck? I have heard it is supposed to look a bit like the traditional handbook, just as the new poomsae Y-neck doboks are, but other than that I don't know much about it. I suppose it was also done in order to differentiate TKD from Karate to a larger degree?

Traditional hanbok:

 

[IcemanSK]

My understanding is that, you are correct in saying it's modeled after Korean hanbok. I don't have a link to reference my thoughts on these things, however.

 

[WaterGal]

I don't think the v-neck uniform is modeled after the hanbok, though the new poomse uniform looks like it was. I think the v-neck is modeled after traditional Korean martial arts uniforms.

I say this because we recently picked up a copy of "Muye Dobo Tongji", which is a historical Korean book from the 1700s about weapons training - complete with drawings showing the moves. And in most of the drawings, the guy is wearing a tunic that looks kinda like the TKD v-neck (it doesn't cross over like a gi), with leggings and a belt. It's a little hard to tell exactly, since they're just little outline drawings to show positions. The book's at the school, but if I remember I could take a picture on Monday at post it.

 

[TrueJim]

I don't think the v-neck uniform is modeled after the hanbok, though the new poomse uniform looks like it was. I think the v-neck is modeled after traditional Korean martial arts uniforms.

I say this because we recently picked up a copy of "Muye Dobo Tongji", which is a historical Korean book from the 1700s about weapons training - complete with drawings showing the moves. And in most of the drawings, the guy is wearing a tunic that looks kinda like the TKD v-neck (it doesn't cross over like a gi), with leggings and a belt. It's a little hard to tell exactly, since they're just little outline drawings to show positions. The book's at the school, but if I remember I could take a picture on Monday at post it.

As an aside, Kim's translated Muye Dobo Tongji is also available in Kindle edition on Amazon: Amazon.com Muye Dobo Tongji Comprehensive Illustrated Manual of Martial Arts of Ancient Korea eBook Duk-Moo Yi Je-Ga Park Sang H. Kim Kindle Store -- that's how I snagged my copy some time back. It's pretty cheap too....just $10.

For those who are unfamiliar with it, Chapter 21 is the chapter that deals with "Kwon Bup: Fist Fighting Method" -- i.e., unarmed combat (the rest of the book deals with armed combat). You can see small excerpts of the photos from that chapter on the taekwondo wiki: Muye Dobo Tongji - Taekwondo Wiki.

I like your theory that the v-neck is modeled after traditional Korean martial arts uniforms, though it's interesting that in Chapter 21 the illustrations are shirtless! Thank goodness that's not a modern-day requirement for taekwondo!

 

[Metal]

Regarding the introduction of the V-neck uniform it would be interesting to see some early pictures where people are exactly sure when they were taken or any notes published by the WTF or Kukkiwon from those days.

I have a pic or a Poom holder from 1982 in a WTF book.

Were the Poom belts/uniforms introduced during the same time when the V-neck was introduced?

When did the ITF change their uniforms from the overlapping black trim version to the Velcro version that closes in the front?


How were people's reaction in the WTF and ITF world when the uniforms were changed?

To me that's quite interesting since we saw the introduction of Poomsae uniforms and the WTF was discussing new Kyorugi uniforms. I remember that a lot of people were sceptic when the Poomsae uniforms were introduced, but now I see even people who're not taking part in Poomsae tournaments wearing them.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Regarding the introduction of the V-neck uniform it would be interesting to see some early pictures where people are exactly sure when they were taken or any notes published by the WTF or Kukkiwon from those days.

I have a pic or a Poom holder from 1982 in a WTF book.

Were the Poom belts/uniforms introduced during the same time when the V-neck was introduced?

When did the ITF change their uniforms from the overlapping black trim version to the Velcro version that closes in the front?


How were people's reaction in the WTF and ITF world when the uniforms were changed?

To me that's quite interesting since we saw the introduction of Poomsae uniforms and the WTF was discussing new Kyorugi uniforms. I remember that a lot of people were sceptic when the Poomsae uniforms were introduced, but now I see even people who're not taking part in Poomsae tournaments wearing them.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Whne ITF went to the center close it was not a big deal. Some originaly had zippers which were bad because they broke if the uniform was pulled on and they could scratch you.

At one time in the late 1970's / early 1980's ITF tried a gray / blue uniform that was polyester, not well rec'd and died a relatively quick death.

 

[chrispillertkd]

When did the ITF change their uniforms from the overlapping black trim version to the Velcro version that closes in the front?

The center closing dobok was introduced in 1982. I saw people wearing ITF uniforms that had overlapping fronts well into the 1990s, though.

Not sure what you mean by "overlapping black trim version." If you mean the black trim that goes around the collar and along the hem on the bottom of the jacket a la the Moo Duk Kwan, the ITF never used trim like that (although some early instructors with roots in the Moo Duk Kwan did). The ITF fairly early on (after 1965 but by 1972, maybe) had black trim just along the bottom of the jacket on its hem and side "vents." It later added stripes down the arms and legs for advanced black belts (IV dan and up). Not sure of the date when these stripes were added but the ones on the legs predate hose on the arms.

Pax,

Chris

 

[tkdwarrior]

When I started in 1977 here in the Philippines I had the karate gi style of uniform then

 

[TrueJim]

I was reading a taekwondo history (The Evolution of Taekwondo from Japanese Karate KIDO KWAN Martial Art International) when I stumbled across an excerpt relevant to this thread:

"A distinctive pullover uniform jacket was introduced in the early 1980s for sport taekwondo. One advantage of the pullover is that it doesn’t gap open during competition, causing lulls while the uniform is fixed."

(I was reading the history while adding more juice to this: Timeline of Taekwondo - Taekwondo Wiki)

 

[Laplace_demon]

Was it a conscious effort to have the ITF and WTF doboks desgined for slimmer individuals, than the Karate gi (which I drown in no matter which size?). I have broad shoulders and great height, but look silly in the Karate gi.

 

[elder999]

The dobok? DIdn't Karl Lagereld design that?

 

[Gnarlie]

Was it a conscious effort to have the ITF and WTF doboks desgined for slimmer individuals, than the Karate gi (which I drown in no matter which size?). I have broad shoulders and great height, but look silly in the Karate gi.

I think it has evolved that way due to the advantage taller people have in an art where kicking forms the basis of the most popular type of competitions.

Tall people win more often, therefore they are more likely to participate, therefore the uniform is more likely to be cut to fit their height....?

Only a suggestion.

 

[Laplace_demon]

I think it has evolved that way due to the advantage taller people have in an art where kicking forms the basis of the most popular type of competitions.

Tall people win more often, therefore they are more likely to participate, therefore the uniform is more likely to be cut to fit their height....?

Only a suggestion.

I don't know, I just asked. Who is responsible for the look of the doboks?

 

[Gnarlie]

Dobok manufacturers are market driven, they design more of what sells best.

Both the WTF and the ITF have some influence over designs that are approved for use at their sanctioned events, which is where the money is for the manufacturers as they can charge a premium for approved goods. And the competitors tend towards tall and skinny.

It then makes sense for manufacturers to produce non-approved budget versions of the same designs for club use. I guess they just use the same measurements.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Dobok manufacturers are market driven, they design more of what sells best.

Both the WTF and the ITF have some influence over designs that are approved for use at their sanctioned events, which is where the money is for the manufacturers as they can charge a premium for approved goods. And the competitors tend towards tall and skinny.

It then makes sense for manufacturers to produce non-approved budget versions of the same designs for club use. I guess they just use the same measurements.

You don't think the average Karateka is skinny, like TKdoins?

 

[Gnarlie]

You don't think the average Karateka is skinny, like TKdoins?

I think there is a greater diversity of body types in Karate and Taekwondo. But as I said, I suspect in Taekwondo the slimmer cut is driven by sport Taekwondo's focus on kicking meaning tall skinny people have an advantage with greater reach for their weight categories.

 

[Chrisoro]

You don't think the average Karateka is skinny, like TKdoins?

The karate gi was originally designed to resemble the kodokan judo gi during the 1930s, as Funakoshi was greatly inspired by Kano's way of doing things. As it is used mostly because of tradition, the way it it fits the average karateka today has probably little to do with their average body type. The modern V-neck dobok however is a deliberate design of much more recent origin, making Gnarlie's suggestion plausible.