The difference between Arts and Systems

[Cynik75]

Video form Armchair Violence about mentioned difference. Clear specification what is "system", what is not (and why Krav Maga is not )
The advantages and disadvantages of fighting systematization (and why it is easier to make systemf of grappling than striking)

 

[skribs]

Video form Armchair Violence about mentioned difference. Clear specification what is "system", what is not (and why Krav Maga is not )
The advantages and disadvantages of fighting systematization (and why it is easier to make systemf of grappling than striking)

I think I'd rather watch Icy Mike than this guy, and I've made very public my displeasure at watching Icy Mike videos in the past.

He presents opinions as if they're scientific fact and is so condescending towards anyone who trains in different ways than him that I can't stand him.

I got 3 seconds into this video, realized who it was, and turned it off.

 

[skribs]

As a counter-point to the above, two folks I really enjoy are Sensei Seth and Fran Sands.

Sensei Seth tries all sorts of martial arts and tries to make them work. Fran Sands is a boxing coach through and through, and he's respectful of other disciplines, while focusing on his own.

I like both of these approaches much more than the attitude of, "Everything you train is wrong if you don't train like me, and if you think you're not wrong then you're stupid too."

 

[drop bear]

As a counter-point to the above, two folks I really enjoy are Sensei Seth and Fran Sands.

Sensei Seth tries all sorts of martial arts and tries to make them work. Fran Sands is a boxing coach through and through, and he's respectful of other disciplines, while focusing on his own.

I like both of these approaches much more than the attitude of, "Everything you train is wrong if you don't train like me, and if you think you're not wrong then you're stupid too."

None of which is the focus of that video.

Breaking down a martial art in to those flow charts will probably make your understanding of martial arts better. It is just a more comprehensive way of looking at the components of being successful. Because if factors in more components.

Whether that is an exclusive use of the term system I doubt it. But it is a good word for that method of approach.

 

[wab25]

"Everything you train is wrong if you don't train like me, and if you think you're not wrong then you're stupid too."

I did not get that from the video at all.

I thought he did a great job of defining what he meant by "system" and how "system" and "arts" benefit each other. It certainly gives you something to think about when looking at your "game plan...."

 

[skribs]

None of which is the focus of that video.

Breaking down a martial art in to those flow charts will probably make your understanding of martial arts better. It is just a more comprehensive way of looking at the components of being successful. Because if factors in more components.

Whether that is an exclusive use of the term system I doubt it. But it is a good word for that method of approach.

Like I said, I got 3 seconds in, realized who it was, and turned it off.

I've seen enough of his videos that he's lost me as a viewer.

 

[drop bear]

Like I said, I got 3 seconds in, realized who it was, and turned it off.

I've seen enough of his videos that he's lost me as a viewer.

You know what I like? John wick movies I think they are super interesting.

 

[Oily Dragon]

That video is terrible.

This guy is lecturing others on reality, in a very goofy splash comedy way, but I'm pretty sure he just learned to drive and would die in a fight.

 

[wab25]

That video is terrible.

This guy is lecturing others on reality, in a very goofy splash comedy way, but I'm pretty sure he just learned to drive and would die in a fight.

Did you watch more than 3 seconds of the video? If so, it would be helpful to bring up specific points he made, that you disagree with and also tell us why you disagree with them. That way we can have a discussion about the topic... Or we can just keep calling people names... that is fun too. I was however hoping for a reasonable discussion about the topic, so that I could learn. I would even be open to learning why the video is wrong.... but you will need more than calling him names to convince me.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Did you watch more than 3 seconds of the video? If so, it would be helpful to bring up specific points he made, that you disagree with and also tell us why you disagree with them. That way we can have a discussion about the topic... Or we can just keep calling people names... that is fun too. I was however hoping for a reasonable discussion about the topic, so that I could learn. I would even be open to learning why the video is wrong.... but you will need more than calling him names to convince me.

I watched the entire thing.

It's terrible. It's a boring, over the top, loud, and annoying analysis of martial arts systems that begins with one person's definition that isn't even accurate. Flowcharts, are you kidding me?

You want to have a discussion? Ok, do you also believe Krav Maga isn't a system? Of course it is, Lichtenfield developed it.

This video made me go watch Ramsey Dewey.

 

[drop bear]

I watched the entire thing.

It's terrible. It's a boring, over the top, loud, and annoying analysis of martial arts systems that begins with one person's definition that isn't even accurate. Flowcharts, are you kidding me?

You want to have a discussion? Ok, do you also believe Krav Maga isn't a system? Of course it is, Lichtenfield developed it.

This video made me go watch Ramsey Dewey.

I think the flow charts are a super important element to making systems more complete.

When I constantly bang on about how techniques need more back of house effort than they generally get. By people with more understanding than they generally have. This systems approach is basically what I am going on about.

 

[Cynik75]

Ok, do you also believe Krav Maga isn't a system? Of course it is, Lichtenfield developed it.

This video made me go watch Ramsey Dewey.

What is your distinction between Martial Art and fighting system?
As for me AV has given interesting and acceprable point of view.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I think the flow charts are a super important element to making systems more complete.

When I constantly bang on about how techniques need more back of house effort than they generally get. By people with more understanding than they generally have. This systems approach is basically what I am going on about.

Well there's nothing wrong with a real flowchart from a legit martial art. BJJ has them, so do many Kung Fu styles. I've collected a bunch.

I'm talking about the silly one in the video he uses to establish his extremely limited definition. You now, where he tried to sound like some sort of martial mathematician.

The whole idea of discriminating "system" vs "art" is not only a waste of time, but in this case I fear it's just a gimmick to get subscribes.

The whole video is a setup hit piece on 10th Planet jiujitsu, a gym I hadn't even thought about in like a decade.

 

[Oily Dragon]

What is your distinction between Martial Art and fighting system?
As for me AV has given interesting and acceprable point of view.

I don't distinct as a general rule.

But I can definitely say this whole semantic self flagellation thing that Youtubers do is a big turnoff to people who actually engage regularly in physical contact.

I view this sort of video as junk candy for young people who, for whatever reason, feel the need to blab about terminology online and pontificate on various subjects that really don't rely on words.

There is a huge range of adept people posting online about martial arts. AV is at the bottom
of the totem pole, imho.

 

[Oily Dragon]

And now my YouTube feed is filled with this hooey.

Yet another example of a YouTube video nobody asked for. A squirrel little dude with lots of hand movement, acting like Ben Shapiro on a mat, mansplaining his personal idea of sport vs. street, modern vs. traditional, in an extremely annoying format.

Did you notice his shirt? He thinks he's smarter than you, but comes across as a weak dork with a nasally over explanatory tone.

If you find value in this stuff, you're either bored or really in need of actually training and not sitting at your computer.

You know it's real when it's REAL in all caps.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

There is a lot of unnecessary time wasted on YouTube listening to so-called 'experts' and their viewpoints. If you have found a particular system or martial art that you love then you are sorted. Keep on training and refining the fundamentals and all will be well. If your particular art/system is lacking in certain areas of combat, seek out the solutions you require elsewhere, fill in the gaps and continue your personal journey in the martial arts - there is nothing simpler, just keep on doing what you love and all will be well