The Danger of Credential Inflation

[lklawson]

First, apparently I am not charging enough for my classes! But I digress...

I like what this guy writes so I'm inclined to be charitable but his credential count of "certifications in more than 75 different weapons systems, defensive tactics programs, and law enforcement specialty areas" seems a bit out of control. If I didn't already have a positive impression of him, once I read his bio, I'd head elsewhere because this certs in 75 different weapons systems claim is a huge red flag to me.

Defensive Knife For Concealed Carry - Feb 25

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Juany118]

First, apparently I am not charging enough for my classes! But I digress...

I like what this guy writes so I'm inclined to be charitable but his credential count of "certifications in more than 75 different weapons systems, defensive tactics programs, and law enforcement specialty areas" seems a bit out of control. If I didn't already have a positive impression of him, once I read his bio, I'd head elsewhere because this certs in 75 different weapons systems claim is a huge red flag to me.

Defensive Knife For Concealed Carry - Feb 25

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I think I know where they came up with it though the "armorer certifications" bit. If someone is "the armorer" for my department 8 of the certifications could come from just that category. If I include the weapons we have transitioned away from over the last 18+ years I could add more to that list. It isn't relevant at all to the course material of course but is sure as hell padded that resume.

As for charging, when my instructor holds seminars at the school he gives a "discount" vs what his consultancy charges. The "discount" makes the class "only" $100.00 for a 5 hour block lol.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[Andrew Green]

First, apparently I am not charging enough for my classes! But I digress...

8 hour course, 125. That's inline with what most schools charge, but it would be 8 1 hour classes instead of 1 8 hour class.

75 certifications seems silly. I imagine a good chunk are pretty low in the requirements (weekend course sort of stuff) and there is a ton of overlap. I don't know much about certifications in that field, but is it possible that a lot of them are just certified to teach weapon A, certified to teach weapon B, certified to teach weapon C, etc?

 

[Buka]

I never realized there were 75 different weapons systems, defensive tactics programs, and law enforcement specialty areas. I mean, who knew?

 

[Buka]

You know how when you take one of those courses, or get recertified in something, or complete some nonsensical out of department training course - they give you one of those nifty 8 x 10 certificates with your name filled in the blank space? They usually get thrown into your locker with all your other crap and eventually fall behind the shelf to your locker's floor where they get crushed and dog eared with your boots and all your other junk.

There's always that one guy who keeps them neatly pressed inside a strong book binder. And if he ever gets an office he builds himself the "Wall of Fame" behind his desk, each certificate exactly equidistant to the others, spaced so they fill the entire wall.

We had a guy like that. We also had a guy, Joe, whose brother was a printer. Joe took photos of several of the certificates, gave them to his brother who recreated them, but changed the wording. Then Joe surreptitiously replaced them. Somewhere in the middle of the wording it said something like "not only did he complete the course, he was voted biggest dick head to ever attend". Those recreated certificates weren't noticed for nearly two years. Then a guy from another department happened to be in the office, casually read one, and started laughing.

The only thing funnier was when Wall of Fame guy read them all and found the others. I was on a day off, but I heard his scream was priceless.

 

[frank raud]

I know Greg, and have taken seminars from him. I don't doubt he has those certs, but I'm sure many of them are LEO course programs. I wouldn't hesitate to take another class(or several) from him were it not for the 10 hour drive to Ohio.

 

[lklawson]

I know Greg, and have taken seminars from him. I don't doubt he has those certs, but I'm sure many of them are LEO course programs. I wouldn't hesitate to take another class(or several) from him were it not for the 10 hour drive to Ohio.

As I wrote, I like what he writes. I'm in Ohio and I see his stuff on buckeyefirearms.org all the time.

I think it's a major mistake to list every certificate he's ever gotten. I get the desire to "look impressive because it draws students." But listing SEVENTY FIVE of them raises red flags and calls to mind every time I see see a web page for "Sensei Bill" who claims expertise in 12 different martial arts, 18 different weapons, and is recognized by "The International Soke Federation" as the Founder and Soke of his own martial art. Makes me want to run for the hills.

Peace favor your word,
Kirk

 

[Flying Crane]

Sounds like a fellow with some good stuff to offer is getting caught in some marketing traps.

 

[Blindside]

His CV: Greg’s CV

There is a dearth of claimed martial arts systems, but lots of XYZ trainer certs, most of which are probably weekend or 40 hour courses, not the equivalent of a "black belt.". Not really that weird for someone who is active in the training department for a LE department, my instructor's CV is filled with all of his different certs.

 

[lklawson]

His CV: Greg’s CV

There is a dearth of claimed martial arts systems, but lots of XYZ trainer certs, most of which are probably weekend or 40 hour courses, not the equivalent of a "black belt.". Not really that weird for someone who is active in the training department for a LE department, my instructor's CV is filled with all of his different certs.

I understand that. I still say that it comes across as credential inflation.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[punisher73]

Greg’s Training Resume

Lists all of his certs.

It's one thing if you are applying for a job/position that they need to know all of those things. Looking through that, it looks more like a marketing thing to impress people who don't know better how LE's get most of their certs (this from almost 20 years of experience in the field).

 

[Flying Crane]

Perhaps it would be more effective and less obnoxious to simply state something like "instructor in numerous weapons training methodologies. Specifics can be supplied upon inquiry."

 

[Flying Crane]

Greg’s Training Resume

Lists all of his certs.

It's one thing if you are applying for a job/position that they need to know all of those things. Looking through that, it looks more like a marketing thing to impress people who don't know better how LE's get most of their certs (this from almost 20 years of experience in the field).

Sheesh. Yeah, that is obnoxious. To most people, the specifics on this list are pretty meaningless. I don't know anything about any of those courses, whether they are worthwhile or not. So seeing a list like that doesn't impress me.

He may be a great instructor, but if I knew nothing else about him other than his CV, I would probably also go elsewhere. This list gives me the impression of someone who is just a little bit too much in love with his guns. I don't care to interact with those people. But that's just me.

 

[Steve]

You know how when you take one of those courses, or get recertified in something, or complete some nonsensical out of department training course - they give you one of those nifty 8 x 10 certificates with your name filled in the blank space? They usually get thrown into your locker with all your other crap and eventually fall behind the shelf to your locker's floor where they get crushed and dog eared with your boots and all your other junk.

There's always that one guy who keeps them neatly pressed inside a strong book binder. And if he ever gets an office he builds himself the "Wall of Fame" behind his desk, each certificate exactly equidistant to the others, spaced so they fill the entire wall.

We had a guy like that. We also had a guy, Joe, whose brother was a printer. Joe took photos of several of the certificates, gave them to his brother who recreated them, but changed the wording. Then Joe surreptitiously replaced them. Somewhere in the middle of the wording it said something like "not only did he complete the course, he was voted biggest dick head to ever attend". Those recreated certificates weren't noticed for nearly two years. Then a guy from another department happened to be in the office, casually read one, and started laughing.

The only thing funnier was when Wall of Fame guy read them all and found the others. I was on a day off, but I heard his scream was priceless.

I have a wall of fame in my office. I put up a certificate I got that says I didn't actually complete a training course. It came from a funny situation where our headquarters contacyed my boss to inform him I hadn't ever attended a mandatory training course. But it was because I was the guys delivering the training.

The other certificate i have up is my 6 million dollar man bionic action club membership cert.

 

[frank raud]

I have a certificate with an expiry date(nice way to generate income, having to requalify for what you already know). Anyways, due to some screwy circumstances with the local instructor, it took over a year for me to get the certificate. Rather than backdate it, the effective date and the expiry date are the same. My knowledge of the training expired the same day I received the cert. Talk about a brain dump.

 

[frank raud]

He may be a great instructor, but if I knew nothing else about him other than his CV, I would probably also go elsewhere. This list gives me the impression of someone who is just a little bit too much in love with his guns. I don't care to interact with those people. But that's just me.

To be fair, he is not a martial arts instructor, he teaches predominately gun, knife and first aid.

 

[Dirty Dog]

To be fair, he is not a martial arts instructor, he teaches predominately gun, knife and first aid.

Gun and knife use are martial arts...

 

[frank raud]

TE="Dirty Dog, post: 1805306, member: 20725"]Gun and knife use are martial arts...[/QUOTE]
Fair statement. But last time I checked, Thunder Ranch or Ringmaster don't give black belts. Most people don't consider gun instructors as being on par with a sensei, no matter the parallels.

 

[Andrew Green]

TE="Dirty Dog, post: 1805306, member: 20725"]Gun and knife use are martial arts...

Fair statement. But last time I checked, Thunder Ranch or Ringmaster don't give black belts. Most people don't consider gun instructors as being on par with a sensei, no matter the parallels.[/QUOTE]

Boxing, wrestling, fencing, lots of kung fu, kickboxing, may thai, etc. Lots of martial arts don't give belts.

"proper" martial arts cover all sorts of weapons training. Gun & knife is just as much a martial art as any of that. If you don't think knife is martial arts I imagine a lot of Kali / Arnis clubs would have something to say there.

 

[Blindside]

He may be a great instructor, but if I knew nothing else about him other than his CV, I would probably also go elsewhere. This list gives me the impression of someone who is just a little bit too much in love with his guns. I don't care to interact with those people. But that's just me.

"those people"