The Art of Teaching

[DArnold]

Over the years I have learned to teach kicking and punching which is the easy part.

However, as an instructor you are responsible for a students mental as well as physical capability. In this area even instructors are always learning about teaching.

Many beginning black belts/instructors do not lead a student to a conclusion but do what we call "vomiting" on their students (they want their students to learn as much as they can so they talk them to death with everything they know). This negates the students ability to experience the knowledge for themselves. Students sometimes get the impression that they know things simply because they have been told them. Many aspects have to be learned by the student themselves (relaxation, timing...).

Teaching someone to kill with a kick and punch is the easy part, similar to putting a gun in someones hand.

BUT, making sure they are mentally ready for the gun is a totally differnt thing.

I will start with an example of a mental test but would like your stories of where an instructor tested you, and most importantly, where you did not know what the test was for!

Example:
I make any student who is late to class do 20 push ups, no matter what the reason. This shows me they can controll their mind. Many students miss class and have quite because the do not want to do the push ups. This is not a physical test, but a mental test. If they can not handle a small task like 20 push ups, mentally, then I do not want to put a gun in their hand and it is better for both of us if they quite.

Thanks!

 

[tkd_jen]

However, as an instructor you are responsible for a students mental as well as physical capability. In this area even instructors are always learning about teaching.

This is a good point that we sometimes forget about. We try to remedy this by ending class with a "mat chat." Basically we do this to remind ourselves that our job is to create better citizens first, better martial artists second. If we have a particularily difficult class, our mat chat will be about how each student has a special responsibilty to be the best they can be in school, at home, in public, and in the gym. As martial artists they need to set a good example because they represent their family (parents) and our gym when in public. Just stuff like that, little life lessons to send them home with.

 

[bignick]

I think for children it can be beneficial to reinforce positive attitudes, but overall there is nothing magical about learning how to kick, punch, and hurt other people that makes you a better person.

That comes from finding something to do and learning dedication, patience, control. You can gain these traits through any activity that is sufficiently challenging that you enjoy.

You either have what it takes to perservere, you learn what it takes, or you quit.

 

[IcemanSK]

I think for children it can be beneficial to reinforce positive attitudes, but overall there is nothing magical about learning how to kick, punch, and hurt other people that makes you a better person.

That comes from finding something to do and learning dedication, patience, control. You can gain these traits through any activity that is sufficiently challenging that you enjoy.

You either have what it takes to perservere, you learn what it takes, or you quit.

I have to disagree with you on this, Nick. There needs to be more to our teaching than just hoping the students "get it". One guy I trained used to tell his students, "I can train a dog to kill. Martial Arts is about more than that." Every instructor I've ever come across (whether they were mine or not) that had loyal students were folks that were as interested in developing people of character, not just talented MA-ists. And the instructors who lacked character tended to have students that were just as self-absorbed as they were.

There is an "are you willing to do what it takes" element to training, certainly. But if we don't try to instill that in folks who aren't sure about themselves, will miss a lot of good students who just need a bit more encouragement. I'm not saying water down what we teach, I'm saying we as instructors need to be willing to be patient.

 

[bignick]

I have to disagree with you on this, Nick. There needs to be more to our teaching than just hoping the students "get it". One guy I trained used to tell his students, "I can train a dog to kill. Martial Arts is about more than that." Every instructor I've ever come across (whether they were mine or not) that had loyal students were folks that were as interested in developing people of character, not just talented MA-ists. And the instructors who lacked character tended to have students that were just as self-absorbed as they were.

There is an "are you willing to do what it takes" element to training, certainly. But if we don't try to instill that in folks who aren't sure about themselves, will miss a lot of good students who just need a bit more encouragement. I'm not saying water down what we teach, I'm saying we as instructors need to be willing to be patient.

I'm not disagreeing that cultivating good people is a bad goal...nor would I discourage anyone from trying to offer encouragement and patience is an admirable virtue. My point was that people today often look for the "magic pill" solution. Whether it's some real pill that will take away their problems, some new diet, some cream, snake oil or even martial arts.

If I take martial arts I'll get the confidence I need. I'll lose the weight I want. I'll be able to beat up that bully. I'll have superhuman abilities. My kid will learn discipline. My kid will learn manners. Ad nauseam.

My point was that at it's core, martial arts really is nothing more than learning how to protect yourself and/or hurt others. We kick, we punch, we throw, we lock and break joints. Knowing this doesn't make you a good person.

I'm quoting Dave Lowry

...ten years spent kicking and punching is probably going to make you a better kicker and puncher. But there is simply no logical or empirical reason to suspect it is going to mold citizens who are a social or aesthetic credit to their kind.

He talks about it better than I do, but his summary is to not confuse the medium with the message. Kicking and punching don't make you a good person. Following the examples of good people, helping others and leaving a good path for others to follow make you a good person. This does not require the martial arts. Nor does learning how to fight require that.

The instructor you talked about was a good person. I'm sure his students were good people. But if he wasn't a martial arts instructor, he would still be leading by example and helping other people become good people in some other way as well.

In addition, some martial arts don't have the code of ethics like the modern Ways. When I train in jujutsu, we don't talk about doing good deeds or what makes a good person. We learn how to hurt other people effectively. This doesn't make us bad people, but it doesn't make us good people either.

Martial arts is the medium, the message is up to you.

 

[exile]

My point was that at it's core, martial arts really is nothing more than learning how to protect yourself and/or hurt others. We kick, we punch, we throw, we lock and break joints. Knowing this doesn't make you a good person.

I'm quoting Dave Lowry
He talks about it better than I do, but his summary is to not confuse the medium with the message. Kicking and punching don't make you a good person. Following the examples of good people, helping others and leaving a good path for others to follow make you a good person. This does not require the martial arts. Nor does learning how to fight require that....

In addition, some martial arts don't have the code of ethics like the modern Ways. When I train in jujutsu, we don't talk about doing good deeds or what makes a good person. We learn how to hurt other people effectively. This doesn't make us bad people, but it doesn't make us good people either.

I think Nick is right about this, and there's something that needs to be said about the way in which this `MA as moral development and character-building' take on things came about. I've read some interesting arguments on an MA site—`24fightingchickens', a lot of the karateka are probably familiar with it—which quoted Funakoshi extensively, with a lot of historical context, to arrive at the conclusion that this conspicuously high-minded creed was an invention of Funakoshi's to allow karate to continue to be taught in postwar, demilarized Japan when the American occupying force and its civilian agencies were busy removing anything that looked militaristic in Japanese culture from public display. By adopting this stance, and stressing the virtues of humility and discipline as the primary payoffs of karate to its practitioners at the time, GF managed to convince the American governors of postwar Japan that teaching karate was a good thing, from their point of view, and they allowed it to continue to be taught.

I have serious doubts that the kwan-era dojang heads would have been all that concerned about the development of moral character in their students; the times where such that you needed those kinds of skills to get home alive, sometimes, and that was why people studied them. As Nick said earlier, discipline is both required and taught by virtually any complex skill that you want to master. The particular characteristic that sets the MAs off from other such skills—structured violence—doesn't seem to be to have any inherent character-building virtues...

 

[Miles]

Martial arts is the medium, the message is up to you.

Does anyone remember Marshall McLuhan who said "the media is the message?"

I don't know about the Kwan founders (who I suspect were more interested in survival rather than cultivating character, at least until after the Korean War), but I think instructors have a huge responsibility in how they conduct themselves and what they teach.

Kicking a target is not mechanically much different than kicking a soccer ball, but when you are teaching someone where to hit for maximum damage, I think it is imperative that there be some moral responsibility on the part of the instructor. Now, whether the instructor conveys a moral code of conduct through her instruction or her actions is a matter of personal choice.

Miles

 

[terryl965]

Does anyone remember Marshall McLuhan who said "the media is the message?"

I don't know about the Kwan founders (who I suspect were more interested in survival rather than cultivating character, at least until after the Korean War), but I think instructors have a huge responsibility in how they conduct themselves and what they teach.

Kicking a target is not mechanically much different than kicking a soccer ball, but when you are teaching someone where to hit for maximum damage, I think it is imperative that there be some moral responsibility on the part of the instructor. Now, whether the instructor conveys a moral code of conduct through her instruction or her actions is a matter of personal choice.


Miles

Cudos for stating that Mi;es, ever the diplomate. I have to agree you and I as Instructor must teach some kind of moral responsibility.

 

[exile]

Guys—no argument about the fact that when we teach MAs, we need to do so responsibly and make sure that people understand the need to use these skills in a way combatible with the ethical and legal culture we live in, for defense, not aggression. What Bignick and I are saying, I think, is that there is nothing about the MAs themselves—their inherent content—which is particularly high-minded.

Here's a parallel example: you want to learn how to use a firearm, so you enroll in a gun-use-and-safety class. The instructor will repeatedly emphasize responsible use of the firearm, caution you against displaying it to impress or intimidate anyone, and so on—but no one actually has ever claimed, so far as I know, that knowledge of handgun use is in itself an instrument for developing character and becoming a better person (though it demands discipline and focus, but plenty of SOBs are disciplined and focused). A firearm is a compact system for applying force; a martial art is too—historically, that's where they both came from—but you wouldn't know it to hear or read some people... MA proficiency and sainthood are two totally different things; if you can combine them, so much the better—but I can think of quite a few MAists who weren't even close to sainthood, but were still great MAists, and I'll bet you can too!

 

[FieldDiscipline]

I think the confidence drawn from proffiency in MA can help to make good people. If you KNOW you can fight, and win, then that confidence permeates and you are less likely to fight.

 

[Makalakumu]

In a traditional martial arts class, all kinds of character development peices are evident. Here are a few examples...

1. Respect - bowing to teachers and other students is a constant reminder to be respectful.

2. Confidence - cultivating the ability to perform something well instills this in a student.

3. Sportsmanship - ie how to lose with grace. If you have a good teacher who expects an amount of humility in his students, this can also be taught.

None of these are exclusive to the MA, but all of them are addressed. Thus, I think its a bit incorrect to reduce it all down to just punching and kicking. There is nothing particularly "high minded" about any art. Painting is just the smearing of chemical pigments onto an object, for example. All of arts meaning is derived from what we imbue it with.

 

[jdinca]

"My point was that at it's core, martial arts really is nothing more than learning how to protect yourself and/or hurt others. We kick, we punch, we throw, we lock and break joints. Knowing this doesn't make you a good person."

I guess it all depends on what you think is encompassed in the thing called "Martial Arts". Is the concept of "Mind, Body, Spirit" something you consider to be the core of MA, or is what bignick said in the above quote what you consider to be the core? That in and of itself, answers the question.

I consider the philosophy of "The Spirit guides the Mind and the Body follows" to be at the heart of what we do. We train the body first, because that's the easiest thing to do and, after all, we are learning how to defend ourselves, but more than just physically. Along the way, we instill mental discipline a number of different ways. One is the principles by which the school runs as far as showing respect and following the rules. More importantly, imo, is that we instill mental discipline by making the student conform to the standards of movement and by pushing them to achieve higher levels. Along the way we provide encouragement and talk to them about exactly what it is they're trying to achieve. Yes, this can be done in just about anything you care to do but is it a main focus, as it is in ma?

As for the Spirit, that lesson starts the first time we say "Martial Arts is for self defense only". The student says "yeah, that makes sense" but they really don't know they've taken the first step in the hardest lesson to learn in ma, and that's how to be a better person, not just to yourself but to others also. We learn how to kick somebody else's butt but the goal is to be able to difuse the situation, or never get into it in the first place, so that our physical abilities don't have to be used. As we advance, gain ability, learn mental discipline, there should come a point where you do start feeling better about yourself, especially if the instructor is guiding this process and providing the proper instruction to bring out these qualities. As the student starts achieving a level of physical and mental discipline and starts to understand "what it's all about", then work can proceed on the Spiritual aspect of how you view yourself and how you treat others.

Many scoff at this as "mystical bs" and just want to learn how to protect themselves. That's their choice. If you choose to buy into the program then it truly can be what I've written above. It's a personal choice.

 

[dragonswordkata]

I hope I am adding to my learned friends comments, and not simply reiterating thier wise points.
Could simply taking the steps along the path of MA be enough to make you abit wiser and vurtuios? In way of comparison, if you think of praying, i bet in most everyone whom thinks of that action, praying, you picture something positive no matter your religious orientation. Of course you may pray, practice MA, for selfish reasons but when I simply think of MA I see humility,wisdom and compassion. I may be a nieve but I do feel some words, nurtured with enough time and grace, can help people grow by themselfs, even if just a little.
I should also disclaim that this in no way takes away our resposibility to live up to those MA values, we have to help it keep growing!

 

[Xue Sheng]

I have read through thread and I feel this is a very important topic that should be discussed.

I am not a teacher at this time so I am likely not qualified to be in this discussion but I want to say that I have had many teachers in MA over the years and I have never regretted my initial training in Jujitsu with my first MA teacher. He made it a point to tell us how serious a fight is and instill in us that if at all possible run away and only fight as a last resort. And he never told us of any fights he had. He only told us of the times he ran away. None of us ever thought less of him for that as a matter of fact we all thought he was pretty cool for telling us that (forgive the use of ‘cool’, I am old and it was the early 70s)

And I mean no disrespect to any of my other teachers but he was the only one that instilled that in his students. My most recent teacher (the police version of sanda/sanshou) has come close by his attitude about who he will train and who he will not. He will only train people he feels will NOT use what he trains unless they have no other choice. He has few students, as far as I know he currently only has one, and that would be me and he did train at least one other person prior to me. But he makes it very clear this can hurt others and it is not to be used just for that purpose… unless there is absolutely no choice

 

[DArnold]

I'm not disagreeing that cultivating good people is a bad goal...nor would I discourage anyone from trying to offer encouragement and patience is an admirable virtue. My point was that people today often look for the "magic pill" solution. Whether it's some real pill that will take away their problems, some new diet, some cream, snake oil or even martial arts.

If I take martial arts I'll get the confidence I need. I'll lose the weight I want. I'll be able to beat up that bully. I'll have superhuman abilities. My kid will learn discipline. My kid will learn manners. Ad nauseam.

My point was that at it's core, martial arts really is nothing more than learning how to protect yourself and/or hurt others. We kick, we punch, we throw, we lock and break joints. Knowing this doesn't make you a good person.

I'm quoting Dave Lowry
He talks about it better than I do, but his summary is to not confuse the medium with the message. Kicking and punching don't make you a good person. Following the examples of good people, helping others and leaving a good path for others to follow make you a good person. This does not require the martial arts. Nor does learning how to fight require that.

The instructor you talked about was a good person. I'm sure his students were good people. But if he wasn't a martial arts instructor, he would still be leading by example and helping other people become good people in some other way as well.

In addition, some martial arts don't have the code of ethics like the modern Ways. When I train in jujutsu, we don't talk about doing good deeds or what makes a good person. We learn how to hurt other people effectively. This doesn't make us bad people, but it doesn't make us good people either.

Martial arts is the medium, the message is up to you.

One, even though this thread has taken a left turn it has remained extreemly interesting.

I do agree that many sell martial arts, either as a magical pill or to put a bowl of rice on their table. In many manners, from exaggerated claims to putting down other styles.

However, martial arts do provide what you said but sometimes, like 42, most students do not understand the question.

Yes my teaching consists of, as you say: "We kick, we punch, we throw, we lock and break joints"

But I reserve the right, as an instructor, to teach these to whome I deem mentally capable. I have refused students! Just because a student pays money does not mean I teach them. I have students who worked out with me for months whose mental capacity would not allow me to progress them. So they worked out, but it was mearly aerobic. I did not advance their technique.

For example, I use respect as a large judge of a students capability because it is the one thing that requires no physical capability. It shows how well a student can controll their own mind.

But are you saying that in many new arts there is not a code? If there is no code what-so-ever then to me this means that:

• students can cuss
• students can disrespect seniors
• seniors can hurt juniors simply because they are better

Even the person who purchases a gun must pass a simple background check. (weed out felons...)

Hundreds of students have come back to me and thanked me for teaching them. They said it helped them through some hard times in their lives. And this has nothing to do with kicking and punching, although this is what they trained day in and day out.

Do you feel you can seperate the mental from the physical?

The basis of confucianism or neo-confucianism belive that:
the physical leads the mental or the mental leads the physical, respectivly.

The only true seperation that I can think of are involentary actions, like breathing.

You said, "
My point was that at it's core, martial arts really is nothing more than learning how to protect yourself and/or hurt others. We kick, we punch, we throw, we lock and break joints. Knowing this doesn't make you a good person."

If that is all someone teaches, "How to fight", then I would not call them a Martial Artist/Art. Just fighters.

Many juniors confuse fighting with ability. Sun Tsu sure disproved this!

Coupled with when and why are just as important. Even a fighter must lear strategy, what is good, what is bad. They must be taught how to use their brain or else they are doomed.

Just like Braveheart. At the beginning when young Wallace is told by his uncle, "Learn to use this (points at his head) then I will teach you to use this (sword)"

" Martial arts is the medium, the message is up to you."

If this were true then there would be no need for a Sahbum/Sensi, you could just go buy a book! I don't believe you can seperate your brain from your body.
:soapbox:

 

[Steel Tiger]

I have to agree with Xue Sheng that this is an important subject.

It is not enough to simply teach the techniques of a martial art or to instill confidence in students through that teaching. One must seek to develop a student in many ways, some of which the student simply will not recognise at first.

A proper moral compass is something that all people who live in society should have. Martial training can help develop such a compass by giving people tools and knowledge of such a nature that they will be loathe to use them except in dire emergency.

The art I teach, Ba Gua, is of a Daoist background and so throughout training my students are bombarded with little sayings from Lao Tzu and Zhuang Tzu. If they retain even 10% of this philosophy I would be happy. Do they know they are being taught a philosophical viewpoint? I don't think so, but I do believe that they are benefitting from what they are hearing.

 

[DArnold]

but would like your stories of where an instructor tested you, and most importantly, where you did not know what the test was for!

Did any of you have any examples???

Thanks

 

[Xue Sheng]

but would like your stories of where an instructor tested you, and most importantly, where you did not know what the test was for!

Did any of you have any examples???

Thanks

Would like whose stories?

 

[bignick]

Been out of the loop a while, and a bunch of you made good counter points, there are some I want to address below.

Kicking a target is not mechanically much different than kicking a soccer ball, but when you are teaching someone where to hit for maximum damage, I think it is imperative that there be some moral responsibility on the part of the instructor. Now, whether the instructor conveys a moral code of conduct through her instruction or her actions is a matter of personal choice.

Exactly, my point, kicking is kicking...the fact that the instructor should help instill a moral code of conduct says that they cannot be gained simply from the activity of the martial arts.

In a traditional martial arts class, all kinds of character development peices are evident. Here are a few examples...

1. Respect - bowing to teachers and other students is a constant reminder to be respectful.

2. Confidence - cultivating the ability to perform something well instills this in a student.

3. Sportsmanship - ie how to lose with grace. If you have a good teacher who expects an amount of humility in his students, this can also be taught.

None of these are exclusive to the MA, but all of them are addressed. Thus, I think its a bit incorrect to reduce it all down to just punching and kicking. There is nothing particularly "high minded" about any art. Painting is just the smearing of chemical pigments onto an object, for example. All of arts meaning is derived from what we imbue it with.

If we are going real traditional here, the respect and discipline were already part of the organization and culture that the martial art was found in. The samurai didn't show respect because he had learned the sword, he did so because there was a clear line of authority and class and he knew exactly where he stood. He showed the right people the right amount of respect and courtesy, and when he didn't have to, what then? That's when we get stories of samurai cutting down peasants for accidently bumping their sword or other various slight infractions. The aspects you refer to could be found in martial arts because they were inherently present in the culture and organizations those people belonged to. Not because they were necessarily martial artists.

But I reserve the right, as an instructor, to teach these to whome I deem mentally capable. I have refused students! Just because a student pays money does not mean I teach them. I have students who worked out with me for months whose mental capacity would not allow me to progress them. So they worked out, but it was merely aerobic. I did not advance their technique.

For example, I use respect as a large judge of a students capability because it is the one thing that requires no physical capability. It shows how well a student can control their own mind.

So if you refuse to teach students that don't appear to make your criteria of capable or worthy, is your teaching actually instilling good values? Or are you merely choosing to teach people that already possess those values?

To sum up, in general, those that say things like instructors have a responsibility to instill proper values, discipline, etc because they teach martial arts are basically playing right into my argument. What your basically saying is that martial arts are dangerous. And if we are teaching people these physical techniques, we need to teach proper use and the moral compass that will allow students to know when to use them. If you say an instructor needs to teach these additional things, it basically implies that simply teaching the techniques of martial arts does not do anything of the sort.

This has been my argument all along. Learning the perfect jab doesn't make you a good person. How can learning how to break someone's wrist or cut of someone's blood flow until they are unconscious or even dead make you better at anything but hurting people? But, can you use the opportunity you have in teaching these things to someone to try to instill discipline and good morals? Absolutely. Martial Arts don't make good people. Good people sharing and instilling their views into others makes good people.

They are not mutually exclusive. Nor should they be. But neither is one actually required for the other.

 

[Solidman82]

That post made me realize that I sometimes talk too much too. I'm a novice instructor and it comes to my attention every time someone asks me to teach them. Luckily everyone I've trainiend with has been a close friend and share the same morals and ethics as me so I take comfort in knowing that they'd likely make the same choices as I.


Time to ponder.