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Is this weapon traditional to the Kan's?
If so, what Ryu has the techniques for it?
Thanks!
If so, what Ryu has the techniques for it?
Thanks!
Talk to me about the Kusarigama...
- Thread starter Cryozombie
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Bruno@MT
Senior Master
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It is definitely not a weapon that is taught a lot.
At least in Genbukan, you only get to special weaponry until you are well into the BB level, except perhaps on an international taikai or other special occasion.
The only weapons that are commonly used in training ar bokken, bo, hanbo and tanto.
At least in Genbukan, you only get to special weaponry until you are well into the BB level, except perhaps on an international taikai or other special occasion.
The only weapons that are commonly used in training ar bokken, bo, hanbo and tanto.
The actual techniques of the kusarigama relating to the kans was lost along time ago. What you have now is a recreation so to speak. It was a weapon used more by the pirates. You would probably find it used a lot in the fuma ryu. The real one not the harunaka hoshino version. If u want kusarigama techniques look towards isshin ryu. They have been well preserved in that system.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hey Cryo,
Well, this is a fun question! Let's put a few things together, shall we?
Yes.
None.
Not a problem.
Okay, let's go a bit more into detail here.
Within the Bujinkan Ryu-ha, the Kusari Gama has been linked with Gyokko Ryu, Togakure Ryu, and occasionally with Shinden Fudo Ryu and Kukishinden Ryu. Shinden Fudo Ryu, for instance, has been linked with a rather large version (see Ninjutsu: History and Traditions, page 18, and for real fun, check page 139).
The links with Gyokko and Togakure make the most sense, though.
The teacher of Hakuunsai Tozawa (head of Hakuun Ryu, which was instrumental in Togakure's formation, and founder of Gyokko Ryu) had a teacher by the name of Hachiryu Nyudo, who was said to be the inventor of the predecessor to the Kusari Gama, the Kyoketsu Shoge (an interesting, but less than literal translation of the name is along the lines of "running over the mountains and valleys"). As said, Hachiryu Nyudo's student, Hakuunsai Tozawa went on to found the Gyokko Ryu, and his other system, the Hakuun Ryu, was a base system for Togakure Ryu. So both these arts have had the Kyoketsu Shoge within their teachings, with the Gyokko Ryu actually being known for it's use of flexible weaponry, starting with that one (and the latest addition to that is the Kusari Fundo/Manriki Gusari, studied by Hatsumi under Yumio Nawa [and his son, I believe], and integrated into the Bujinkan teachings as part of Gyokko Ryu. That is not a traditional weapon for these schools, so you know).
The Kyoketsu Shoge is claimed to then be the ancestor of the Kusari Gama, with the latter developing from the former. Although, to be fair, I'm not convinced of that entirely. I think it developed rather independantly around the place, and the similarities are more superficial, both just being examples of composite weapons, such as Chigiriki, and various Shikomi Zue weapons. But it's influence was probably there in at least some of the developing weapons.
None of the schools have retained kata for either of these weapons, though. It is said that there are some methods of use for both in the Gyokko and Togakure scrolls, but that is more some guidelines as to dimensions and some uses, rather than techniques. They are said to be more a part of the oral tradition of these arts.
In terms of schools that do still maintain some kata for Kusari Gama, the following are ones that I know of.
Isshin Ryu, as mentioned above. This Ryu is not the karate system, but a system of Kusari Gama Jutsu assimilated and taught within the Shinto Muso Ryu Jojutsu system.
Kiraku Ryu Jujutsu and Araki Ryu Kogusoku both came out of Toda Ryu, and are the only two extant systems that also teach Chigiriki.
Toda-ha Buko Ryu, also from Toda Ryu, and Kashima Shinryu both teach the weapon as an attacking weapon in order to study the defensive movements of the Naginata and Sword respectively.
The structure and design of this weapon changes rather dramatically from Ryu to Ryu as well. The "standard" Bujinkan one features a relatively small kama section, with a long (15 feet) chain attached to the bottom of the handle-haft. The one in Kashima Shinryu and Toda-ha Buko Ryu is pretty much the same, with differences in the length of the chain. The Kiraku Ryu one and Araki Ryu ones feature a shorter chain (less than 8 feet), attached to the top of the haft, and often with a hand-guard at the bottom of the kama section. The Isshin Ryu one has an almost straight blade at 90 degrees to the haft, a guard near the blade itself, and the chain extended from the base of the kama haft.
Some videos? Okay!
[yt]Wm9FI5ppsyM[/yt] Isshin Ryu Kusarigamajutsu
[yt]UG3UPd7ahLc[/yt] Classic footage of Shimizu Takaji and Kaminoda Tsunemori demonstrating Isshin Ryu Kusarigamajutsu.
[yt]25T1W2d-E6k[/yt] Tendo Ryu, another Naginata school.
[yt]zHOsOV7sTN8[/yt] Masaki Ryu Kusarijutsu, the same school that gives the Bujinkan it's Kusari Fundo techniques.
[yt]bXesoopsWGE[/yt] Nito Shinkage Ryu. Here you can see the early influence of the Kyoketsu Shoge in the design of the second kama (yes, second kama!)
[yt]VDUT_cQEryI[/yt] Araki Ryu... wrap a chain around their neck, and...... pull!
[yt]SBXTnJrbzZs[/yt] More Araki Ryu... do love these guys!
[yt]fm0uNCM1FDs[/yt] Kiraku Ryu Chigirikijutsu... I have a video of their system, including their kusarigamajutsu (very similarto the Araki Ryu shown above), but it doens't seem to be on you-tube.... so you'll just have to live with this!
Well, this is a fun question! Let's put a few things together, shall we?
Yes.
None.
Not a problem.
Okay, let's go a bit more into detail here.
Within the Bujinkan Ryu-ha, the Kusari Gama has been linked with Gyokko Ryu, Togakure Ryu, and occasionally with Shinden Fudo Ryu and Kukishinden Ryu. Shinden Fudo Ryu, for instance, has been linked with a rather large version (see Ninjutsu: History and Traditions, page 18, and for real fun, check page 139).
The links with Gyokko and Togakure make the most sense, though.
The teacher of Hakuunsai Tozawa (head of Hakuun Ryu, which was instrumental in Togakure's formation, and founder of Gyokko Ryu) had a teacher by the name of Hachiryu Nyudo, who was said to be the inventor of the predecessor to the Kusari Gama, the Kyoketsu Shoge (an interesting, but less than literal translation of the name is along the lines of "running over the mountains and valleys"). As said, Hachiryu Nyudo's student, Hakuunsai Tozawa went on to found the Gyokko Ryu, and his other system, the Hakuun Ryu, was a base system for Togakure Ryu. So both these arts have had the Kyoketsu Shoge within their teachings, with the Gyokko Ryu actually being known for it's use of flexible weaponry, starting with that one (and the latest addition to that is the Kusari Fundo/Manriki Gusari, studied by Hatsumi under Yumio Nawa [and his son, I believe], and integrated into the Bujinkan teachings as part of Gyokko Ryu. That is not a traditional weapon for these schools, so you know).
The Kyoketsu Shoge is claimed to then be the ancestor of the Kusari Gama, with the latter developing from the former. Although, to be fair, I'm not convinced of that entirely. I think it developed rather independantly around the place, and the similarities are more superficial, both just being examples of composite weapons, such as Chigiriki, and various Shikomi Zue weapons. But it's influence was probably there in at least some of the developing weapons.
None of the schools have retained kata for either of these weapons, though. It is said that there are some methods of use for both in the Gyokko and Togakure scrolls, but that is more some guidelines as to dimensions and some uses, rather than techniques. They are said to be more a part of the oral tradition of these arts.
In terms of schools that do still maintain some kata for Kusari Gama, the following are ones that I know of.
Isshin Ryu, as mentioned above. This Ryu is not the karate system, but a system of Kusari Gama Jutsu assimilated and taught within the Shinto Muso Ryu Jojutsu system.
Kiraku Ryu Jujutsu and Araki Ryu Kogusoku both came out of Toda Ryu, and are the only two extant systems that also teach Chigiriki.
Toda-ha Buko Ryu, also from Toda Ryu, and Kashima Shinryu both teach the weapon as an attacking weapon in order to study the defensive movements of the Naginata and Sword respectively.
The structure and design of this weapon changes rather dramatically from Ryu to Ryu as well. The "standard" Bujinkan one features a relatively small kama section, with a long (15 feet) chain attached to the bottom of the handle-haft. The one in Kashima Shinryu and Toda-ha Buko Ryu is pretty much the same, with differences in the length of the chain. The Kiraku Ryu one and Araki Ryu ones feature a shorter chain (less than 8 feet), attached to the top of the haft, and often with a hand-guard at the bottom of the kama section. The Isshin Ryu one has an almost straight blade at 90 degrees to the haft, a guard near the blade itself, and the chain extended from the base of the kama haft.
Some videos? Okay!
[yt]Wm9FI5ppsyM[/yt] Isshin Ryu Kusarigamajutsu
[yt]UG3UPd7ahLc[/yt] Classic footage of Shimizu Takaji and Kaminoda Tsunemori demonstrating Isshin Ryu Kusarigamajutsu.
[yt]25T1W2d-E6k[/yt] Tendo Ryu, another Naginata school.
[yt]zHOsOV7sTN8[/yt] Masaki Ryu Kusarijutsu, the same school that gives the Bujinkan it's Kusari Fundo techniques.
[yt]bXesoopsWGE[/yt] Nito Shinkage Ryu. Here you can see the early influence of the Kyoketsu Shoge in the design of the second kama (yes, second kama!)
[yt]VDUT_cQEryI[/yt] Araki Ryu... wrap a chain around their neck, and...... pull!
[yt]SBXTnJrbzZs[/yt] More Araki Ryu... do love these guys!
[yt]fm0uNCM1FDs[/yt] Kiraku Ryu Chigirikijutsu... I have a video of their system, including their kusarigamajutsu (very similarto the Araki Ryu shown above), but it doens't seem to be on you-tube.... so you'll just have to live with this!
DuskB4Dawn
Green Belt
been watching these vids
the kusarigamajutsu is so good at trapping against the sword
the Kusari Gama is just a kama with a rope and wieght on the end.
ive noticed some Kusari Gama have the rope attached tn the top of the kama. why is that?
the kusarigamajutsu is so good at trapping against the sword
the Kusari Gama is just a kama with a rope and wieght on the end.
ive noticed some Kusari Gama have the rope attached tn the top of the kama. why is that?
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
With the actual weapon (and as seen in the Araki Ryu clips), it's not a rope, it's a chain. That's where the name comes from (Kusari = Chain, Kama/Gama = Sickle, altogether, Sickle and Chain).
Different Ryu-ha have slightly or largely different configurations of the weapons, with bigger or smaller kama, longer or shorter chains, slightly different weights, with or without a handguard, using the sickle in the right or left hand, holding the blade "normally" or "reverse" (as seen in a lot of the Isshin Ryu kata) and so on. The reasons for that are the uses within that Ryu itself, with the design reflecting the use within that system.
Different Ryu-ha have slightly or largely different configurations of the weapons, with bigger or smaller kama, longer or shorter chains, slightly different weights, with or without a handguard, using the sickle in the right or left hand, holding the blade "normally" or "reverse" (as seen in a lot of the Isshin Ryu kata) and so on. The reasons for that are the uses within that Ryu itself, with the design reflecting the use within that system.
OP
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Does anyone know if Don Angier's DVD is any good?
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
His Hojo stuff isn't bad, a good way to get started on it with basic ideas at least, but I haven't been too impressed with much else, honestly. Most of it is rather generic, and some of the swordsmanship has some issues in regards to grips, movement etc. I haven't seen his Kusarigama video, just little clips in the title intro's of others, nothing really leapt out at me. I'd more suggest something like the Kiraku Ryu DVD. It's all in Japanese, but it's the movement that you're watching, and it's done well enough that not understanding the language isn't much of an issue. And it's more realistic than most uses of Kusarigama I've seen, including the brief clips of Don Angier (he seemed to be too close, and not really get how the chain is actually used, wanting it to be a close-quarters weapon, rather than a range-changing weapon that it is).
OP
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Thanks!
I'll have to look for that DVD.
I'll have to look for that DVD.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Here you are: http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=22209&cat=&page=1
It needs to be special ordered in, from the looks of things. I have an old VHS copy of it, quite an interesting piece. It's closely related to Araki Ryu and Toda-ha Buko Ryu. According to some, there is also a connection to Takenouchi Ryu, which has a connection to our Takagi Yoshin Ryu as well (phew, gets complicated, doesn't it?).
It needs to be special ordered in, from the looks of things. I have an old VHS copy of it, quite an interesting piece. It's closely related to Araki Ryu and Toda-ha Buko Ryu. According to some, there is also a connection to Takenouchi Ryu, which has a connection to our Takagi Yoshin Ryu as well (phew, gets complicated, doesn't it?).
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Yep, agreed. Of course, it's a Kyoketsu Shoge, rather than a Kusari Gama, but that's just splitting weapons, really... fun clip!
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