Take on Poomsae

[terryl965]

Out of all the different poomsae that have been over the year what set do you consider to have the most SD application in them and out of the set which one is the your favorite and for what reason?

 

[aplonis]

I never much consider whether a given form has self-defense application or not. Rather they exist to keep my repertoir wide and open so that I do not narrow it down to only those things I like best.

That said, no form I know of has one of the things I do like best.

Not one of those thirty odd forms I've been taught and must stay current on have so much as a single back kick anywhere in them. If there were such a one that had a back kick aimed at an opponent trying to duck 45 degress offline past my lead foot...that form for certain would be my favorite.

WMTKD

 

[FieldDiscipline]

Not one of those thirty odd forms I've been taught and must stay current on have so much as a single back kick anywhere in them.

Need an ITF input in confirmation, but I'm sure there is a back kick in the chang hon set somewhere. Somewhere around first dan level. I must learn them again, never enough time, never enough brain cells!

 

[Kacey]

Need an ITF input in confirmation, but I'm sure there is a back kick in the chang hon set somewhere. Somewhere around first dan level. I must learn them again, never enough time, never enough brain cells!

There are indeed... several, starting with, I believe, Chung-Moo, which is the pattern learned by people testing from 1st gup (high red belt) to I Dan (1st degree black belt); also in Juche, Ko-Dang, Ul-Ji, and Moon-Mu, which are all BB patterns of various levels. It's possible there are back kicks in the higher BB patterns as well, but Moon-Mu is the highest pattern I've been taught. People who are curious about the movements in the Ch'ang H'on patterns can look here for the movements.

 

[Miles]

Not one of those thirty odd forms I've been taught and must stay current on have so much as a single back kick anywhere in them. If there were such a one that had a back kick aimed at an opponent trying to duck 45 degress offline past my lead foot...that form for certain would be my favorite.

WMTKD

Your organization has a CDK background-GM Park, Hae Man teaches a series of Kibon poomsae, the 6th of which has a back kick.

Otherwise, there are back kicks in Pyungwon.

I agree though that I never thought about which poomsae has the most SD techniques....interesting question.

Miles

 

[stoneheart]

Out of all the different poomsae that have been over the year what set do you consider to have the most SD application in them and out of the set which one is the your favorite and for what reason?

I'd say the Japanese forms (called Pyong An, Chulgi, etc. in Korean systems) series. These are the oldest forms still used in Korean martial arts today, and a wide variety of Okinawan, Japanese, and Korean systems continue to practice them. There is simply a large body of knowledge surrounding these forms already along with numerous experts who can teach them properly with emphasis on the self-defense aspects of the form.

Why bother reinventing the wheel by delving down yet another reshuffling of the same techniques? Be open minded and learn from others regardless of whether they call themselves Shotokan, shorin-ryu, tang soo do, or tae kwon do.

I say this as someone who has learned a variety of hyung from Pyong An, Chang Hon, and Palgwe.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

There are indeed... several, starting with, I believe, Chung-Moo, which is the pattern learned by people testing from 1st gup (high red belt) to I Dan (1st degree black belt); also in Juche, Ko-Dang, Ul-Ji, and Moon-Mu, which are all BB patterns of various levels. It's possible there are back kicks in the higher BB patterns as well, but Moon-Mu is the highest pattern I've been taught. People who are curious about the movements in the Ch'ang H'on patterns can look here for the movements.

Thanks Kacey. Out of interest are the tul DVDs on that site any good, do you know?

 

[Kacey]

Thanks Kacey. Out of interest are the tul DVDs on that site any good, do you know?

I don't have the current version (darn budget!) but the older ones were good, and I don't know off-hand if they rerecorded them, or if they remastered the old ones.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

(darn budget!)

I know it well. Cheers. They're more of a side project for me, coming under the auspices of the great WTF and with the way they are changing their poomse I fear I may have to invest there first :disgust:

 

[pczerwin]

I read somewhere once that you must preform each poomse 3000 times before you can even begin to master it and before you should move on to the next. Unfortunately I don't think enough people appreciate the value of poose. It is a way to teach you to fight with an empty mind. To respond without thinking.

If you are unable to see the self defense benefits of poose then I suggest you watch any of the John Chung videos and you will see exactly how many self defense motions you are learning. When I teach my students a new form, I am always mindful of mentioning each motions application in the real world. I think it really helps them connect to their form, and they have a better appreciation for what they are learning.

If you are just "learning" as many forms as you can, without truly understanding or appreciating them, than you are really missing out. I would rather know 2 great forms, than 30 with no understanding.

And while a back kick is a great counter in the sparring world (sometimes), in real life, it is not very practical. The best kicks for self defense are the low kicks that target the vulnerable areas - ones that are quick, easy and effective are best.

 

[stoneheart]

And while a back kick is a great counter in the sparring world (sometimes), in real life, it is not very practical.

If the back kick is a simple thrust kick to the rear, I'd disagree. I think the back kick is an excellent weapon in a multiple attack situation when you are surrounded by assailants. The back kick is quick and powerful - if you have strong hamstring muscles, so much the better.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

Unfortunately I don't think enough people appreciate the value of poose. It is a way to teach you to fight with an empty mind. To respond without thinking.

I agree entirely.

If you are unable to see the self defense benefits of poose then I suggest you watch any of the John Chung videos

Wouldnt happen to have a link would you? I'm not familiar with that name.

 

[stoneheart]

John Chung was one of Jhoon Rhee's black belts I think. He was an accomplished tournament champion during the eighties, and he put out a TKD video series through Panther Productions back then. It's been years since I've viewed them, but I recall they had value for me back then. I wish I knew where my parents stashed all my old stuff.

Looks like he has a website. Thanks, Google. http://www.johnchung.com/

 

[FieldDiscipline]

I know the feeling. Thanks!