TAGB disastrous patterns delivery

[Acronym]

Who on earth told them to punch like this when they split from the ITF?

There's a reason TKD has a well earned reputation for sloppy punching, It's clips like this. Even worse, his disciples do the same...

How many legitimate non american Karate schools punch this sloppy?

It starts at 2.07

 

[Ivan]

For a clip that stresses correct posture, I am surprised they used a black belt that leans way too far forward on hip punches.

 

[dvcochran]

Uber traditional training. That is a deep stance so his lean isn't very bad at all. That kind of stance/footwork and hand/arm drills are done for coordination and technique.
Hopefully someone can correct me but I think ITF calls this 'punch bias' where you make sure your momentum goes into the punch and the deep stance allows you to stay rooted and balanced.
@Ivan , could you elaborate what you mean by 'hip punches'?

 

[Ivan]

Uber traditional training. That is a deep stance so his lean isn't very bad at all. That kind of stance/footwork and hand/arm drills are done for coordination and technique.
Hopefully someone can correct me but I think ITF calls this 'punch bias' where you make sure your momentum goes into the punch and the deep stance allows you to stay rooted and balanced.
@Ivan , could you elaborate what you mean by 'hip punches'?

Hip punches, punches that start chambered at the hip. That's what I call them. But I have been in ITF myself for 2-3 years, and we are specifically told not to lean into our punches at all, just to rotate our shoulders the slightest amount. At my Shito Ryu training as a kid, I was told not to lean or twist my trunk, shoulders etc at all.

 

[Acronym]

Uber traditional training. That is a deep stance so his lean isn't very bad at all. That kind of stance/footwork and hand/arm drills are done for coordination and technique.
Hopefully someone can correct me but I think ITF calls this 'punch bias' where you make sure your momentum goes into the punch and the deep stance allows you to stay rooted and balanced.
@Ivan , could you elaborate what you mean by 'hip punches'?

It has nothing to do with ITF. He punches like a beginner.

 

[dvcochran]

Hip punches, punches that start chambered at the hip. That's what I call them. But I have been in ITF myself for 2-3 years, and we are specifically told not to lean into our punches at all, just to rotate our shoulders the slightest amount. At my Shito Ryu training as a kid, I was told not to lean or twist my trunk, shoulders etc at all.

Interesting. Yeah, that ready hand punch is super traditional but still used a lot in practice and forms in several styles.
Again, I hope @Earl Weiss or others will chime in since I am more of a WT/Kukki and MDK guy. But that is very similar to Moo Duk Kwan teachings. You can certainly go too far with the lean and get out over your front leg. Power generation using the hips/trunk is a hallmark preference in several styles. Are you practicing sine wave? That would account for some of the differences.

 

[Ivan]

Interesting. Yeah, that ready hand punch is super traditional but still used a lot in practice and forms in several styles.
Again, I hope @Earl Weiss or others will chime in since I am more of a WT/Kukki and MDK guy. But that is very similar to Moo Duk Kwan teachings. You can certainly go too far with the lean and get out over your front leg. Power generation using the hips/trunk is a hallmark preference in several styles. Are you practicing sine wave? That would account for some of the differences.

If by Sine Wave you mean the sliding motion of the legs, for Shito Ryu I did. But in my ITF club, although we never used short stance and only used long stance, our transfer from one long stance to another was done as if you were using the short stance walking motion. Personally however, I kept my sliding motion with my feet out of habit whilst I did ITF forms.

 

[skribs]

I have to agree with @Ivan and @Acronym, he's definitely leaning with his shoulders.

Sometimes I wonder why people put what they put onto a video for global distribution. That's not the time to put up someone who is high ranking just to make them feel good, and it's not the time to just do a quick once-through and call it good. You can pick your best performer, and you can take as many times as you need to get it 100% right. That's what you should be doing if you're producing a video.

 

[dvcochran]

I went back and watched more of the video and he does lean more on his advancing movements. What I see that is more egregious is that he is never really settling into his stances. They are pretty sloppy. For me this is one of the hardest things to teach. I agree a BB should have better stances.
As far as the video production; I agree it is some old school teaching that may not translate very well to video. It looks to be standard definition so I imagine it is rather old.
Does anyone still practice these drills?

 

[Acronym]

Here's a newer one

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Just watched a random part of the first video (3:30-4:02), and yeah..that was atrocious. Both stance work and subsequent punches, just filled with everything that you shouldn't be doing. I can only write so much of that off to it being a different system...I feel bad for his students (if he's the main instructor).

 

[Acronym]

Just watched a random part of the first video (3:30-4:02), and yeah..that was atrocious. Both stance work and subsequent punches, just filled with everything that you shouldn't be doing. I can only write so much of that off to it being a different system...I feel bad for his students (if he's the main instructor).

It boggles the mind how they split from this:

 

[Acronym]

TAGB Tae Kwon-Do

It was formed in 1983 and has since become the founding member of the British Tae Kwon-Do Council (BTC) which is recognised by the United Kingdom Sports Council.

 

[Acronym]

Just watched a random part of the first video (3:30-4:02), and yeah..that was atrocious. Both stance work and subsequent punches, just filled with everything that you shouldn't be doing. I can only write so much of that off to it being a different system...I feel bad for his students (if he's the main instructor).

it isn't a new system

Here's a better practitioner

 

[JowGaWolf]

I can only write so much of that off to it being a different system

Same here. All I can say is that it looks awkward and the body mechanics don't seem to be flowing. I don't know the goal of the exercise or what it's supposed to teach.

 

[JowGaWolf]

it isn't a new system

Here's a better practitioner

That's a lot better.

 

[dvcochran]

Just watched a random part of the first video (3:30-4:02), and yeah..that was atrocious. Both stance work and subsequent punches, just filled with everything that you shouldn't be doing. I can only write so much of that off to it being a different system...I feel bad for his students (if he's the main instructor).

In that section of the video is do see that his lead foot hand are not at all time together. I have heard arguments on both sides of this coin but we teach that they should be in time.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It boggles the mind how they split from this:

That's what it originally was before the split? Wow. big difference. That's a lot more energy than the robot walks I've seen from TKD.

 

[skribs]

That's what it originally was before the split? Wow. big difference. That's a lot more energy than the robot walks I've seen from TKD.

I liken Taekwondo forms to panes in a comic book.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Interesting. But that is very similar to Moo Duk Kwan teachings. You can certainly go too far with the lean and get out over your front leg. Power generation using the hips/trunk is a hallmark preference in several styles. Are you practicing sine wave? That would account for some of the differences.

I do not know the "whys" as to what is going on in the first video. I suspect like many it's a holdover from some instructor in the lineage. Suffice it to say there are numerous non Chang Hon / ITF characteristics to the walking stance middle front punch shown. The walking stance should not have the lower leg vertical. It should be angled slightly back so the front of the kneecap is aligned vertically with the back of the heel. This makes a lead leg kick easier from this stance as opposed to a deeper stance with lower leg vertical. (feel free to try it) Shoulders should be square with thumb side of the fist at the center line when extended. (Video shows punch more to shoulder line). So the fist and shoulders should form an isosceles triangle. (Video shows punching side shoulder way forward.) Punch should not extend past distance of toes of lead foot. Meaning if you were facing a wall and lead foot toes touched wall knuckles would also touch wall at center line.. This is for stability. (Video shows punch way out in front of toes) Simple test hve someone extend punch shoulders turned and fist way past toes. Grab their wrist. A slight pull will unbalance them.