Surely We're Not Going There Again!

[Sukerkin]

It's long enough ago now that most people, who do not have a passion or history, have forgotten how such stern-but-reasonable arguments were the cornerstones for the growth of a certain not-to-be-spoken-of party in Germany:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11559451

Maybe I'm just twitchy because of the present economic maelstrom but I find such precursive words quite disturbing.

 

[Tez3]

I lived in Germany for three years back in the 80s, we were posted to RAF Laarbruch but lived in married quarters in the nearby town of Weeze. There were quite a few Turkish 'guest workers' and I can say the Germans hated them. You could see it in the way they were treated and spoken to, they did all the dirty jobs the locals didn't want to do but the expectation by the Germans was always that these guest workers would return to Turkey. The Germans never thought the Turkish workers were there for good.

The local Germans had an ambivalant attitude to us as well, didn't like us being there as 'occupiers' but we provided a good income for the surrounding area, we shopped in local shops, bought cars, furniture etc. The base also employed many locals.

The older population despite having lost the war haven't actually changed anything in the way they think sadly.The post war generation is very different to the old one luckily and seem to have embraced the multi culturalism easier.

 

[Big Don]

Why should any government, cater to those who refuse to learn the language?

 

[Tez3]

Why should any government, cater to those who refuse to learn the language?

Is it true though that they refuse to learn the language? All schools, colleges etc teach in German, the Germans will only speak German (few would even speak English to us on the base and they were fluent) so a great many non Germans must have a grasp of the language. The Germans told the Turkish workers they were only 'guest workers' not eligible to live permanently in the country, they just wanted them to do the dirty jobs they didn't. The German attitude was off from the time the first 'guest workers' arrived. They shouldn't have invited the Turks to their country in the first place if they didn't want to look after them.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Guests can and do out stay their welcome.....being a guest also implied temporariness of stay.

 

[Tez3]

Guests can and do out stay their welcome.....being a guest also implied temporariness of stay.

True but the Germans gave them the right to immigrate, they aren't there illegally. The Turks thought they were there on a limited time scale but the Germans said they could stay and beome German citizens. If having them there wasn't working or the Germans didn't want them to stay they shouldn't have given them the right to become citizens.

 

[CoryKS]

True but the Germans gave them the right to immigrate, they aren't there illegally. The Turks thought they were there on a limited time scale but the Germans said they could stay and beome German citizens. If having them there wasn't working or the Germans didn't want them to stay they shouldn't have given them the right to become citizens.

This is it right here. They invited them in and let them stay. They permitted the situation so they really can't blame their short-sightedness on the immigrants. Germany is going to change, but it won't be because they were invaded. It's because they gave their country away.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Guests can and do out stay their welcome.....being a guest also implied temporariness of stay.

True, but in legal terms, there was no limit to their stay IIRC.

 

[Big Don]

Assimilation is what makes an immigrant a part of his/her new country.

 

[Tez3]

Assimilation is what makes an immigrant a part of his/her new country.

It's very hard to assimilate in Germany, even the former East Germans find it so.

 

[Big Don]

It's very hard to assimilate in Germany, even the former East Germans find it so.

It is even harder when you actively try not to...

 

[Tez3]

It is even harder when you actively try not to...

Big statement that, you of course have proof the Turks aren't trying?

Ah of course they're not, they are immigrants aren't they, therefore equate to everything you hate.

 

[Empty Hands]

ah of course they're not, they are immigrants aren't they, therefore equate to everything you hate.

qft.

 

[Tez3]

From what I saw in Germany the Turks tried hard to fit in but were regarded by many Germans as being somewhat 'lower' beings, servants if you like. The Turkish children went to school pushed by parents as immigrants often do to succeed at school and therefore get better jobs and housing. Of course there's some people, of every nationality in every country who want something for nothing but it doesn't mean the majority are that way.

Interesting that Don takes the words of someone who would be in America a 'liberal' to be true, look up Angela Merkel's background especially her communist background and leanings.

 

[Big Don]

Interesting that Don takes the words of someone who would be in America a 'liberal' to be true, look up Angela Merkel's background especially her communist background and leanings.

Even a broken clock...

 

[crushing]

There doesn't appear to have been much progress, if any, since this June 2006 BBC News article described the 'parallel societies' in Germany.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5118244.stm

Turkey's European Affairs Minister Egemen Bagis called on Turkish immigrants to "adapt to the customs."

“Learn German! Adjust to the customs and conventions of your host country,” Bagis said in an interview published in the Bild. “Send your children to the best schools so they will have a future!”

http://wireupdate.com/wires/11203/turkeys-eu-affairs-minister-calls-on-turks-in-germany-to-adapt-to-the-customs/

 

[Tez3]

Easy for him to say, he wasn't living there!

 

[crushing]

Easy for him to say, he wasn't living there!

I lived in Germany for a few years in the early 90s, but that sure doesn't make me an expert. I'm sure he knows more about what is going on with Turks in Germany than I do. Maybe, just maybe, you will have the opportunity to bring him up to speed about the problems German Turks are having.

 

[Archangel M]

Suk. You have a thread on how the UK risks loosing its cultural identity due to unrestricted immigration and you have this thread here. How do you compare/reconcile the two?

 

[Sukerkin]

The other thread wasn't really about that, Angel - it was much more about the positive image of the UK that 'serious', legal immigrants have.

Just because I happen to think that the flows are too large (out as well as in) should not to be taken to mean that I have a "send the buggers back, they're not the ones we want" mentality.