Supplementation.... with Ketones

[JP3]

I wanted to know how many of y'all know about this ketone drink thing. My lady wife's got me drinking these things.... well, she's had me at it for about 2 months now. Procedure is simple, and way easier than my protein shakes -- grab a packet, get a shaker-glass, dump 4-5 ice cubes in there, pour suspicious-looking white powder in the cup as well, pour in 12-16 ounces of water and go into a Tom Cruise in Cocktail cup-shaking routine for about 3 seconds. End product looks ... conveniently like old-fashioned Kool-Aid, the punch flavor. I wanted to put this out there as the other workout thread got me to thinking... "Am I the only dude whose lady knows about this?" Can't be, but if so, I don't want anyone to miss out. My beer gut is nearly gone already with NO real diet changes -- which I think amazing. Hhere's a cool link you can geek out if you want...

KETO OS Review | Results Of Using This Ketogenic Diet Supplement

So, as in the other thread, In February, I was at 6'3" and an importune 248 at last doctor visit. Untenable, that weight. Had been going to the gym with my lady, nothing much really changing there... not 22 anymore, that is glaringly obvious every time I walk up to the dumbbell rack and grab what I "think" I ought to be able to do on the Whatsit exercise. Pick them up, make a face, put them right back down again and move down the rack to the left (left to right at our 24-hour fitness increasing weight). Ack, not good.

I've learned something in my own geekly way by this simple sort of google search. I just type "ketones" as one keyword, and then the second keyword/keyphrase for google to search goes next... and you can literally run down a rabbit hole on the benefits of the ketones. I was more than a little pooh-pooh skeptic... but I kept following that rabbit and discovered it's all backed up by real research... some of which is almost 100 years old! Just sitting on a shelf, with nobody doing anything with it until the relatively-recent Atkins movement... I think that was early 80s? Then some research for the U.S. Navy Seals dealing with rebreather-increased dive seizures took an interesting turn, somewhere around 20 years ago or so.

Here's some good stuff on a topic near and dear to any martial artist with 20+ years under his her ... uh.... belt....

"Ketones and joint pain:"

ketones joint pain - Google Search

or, for folks like my man Jobo, How about "Ketones and workout recovery:"

ketones workout recovery - Google Search

Interesting health benefits, not just fat loss, too...

For example, "ketones and fibromyalgia:"

ketones fibromyalgia - Google Search

"Ketones and Inflammation:"

ketones inflammation - Google Search

I don't know too much about this, but with every day I'm reading more, learning more, and getting more convinced. My lady keeps giving them to me. I keep drinking them, and the belly is going flat and muscle is coming back ... and I dig that.

This is too long already, sorry. If you wanted to know more about it, I can point at things available, just PM or reply whatever. In my opinion, everyone should drink this stuff, even you tore-up shredded dudes and gals with muscles popping out all over, 6 & 8 pack abs, etc, as it'll make what's already awesome even more Awesome-er... if that's, like, a word.

 

[jobo]

thanks for the name check il follow the links when I get home, doing a twilight woods work out at the moment

but my first google threw up this
Woman died after taking overdose of raspberry ketone slimming pills | Daily Mail Online
apparently these were loaded with caffeine, no wonder they cause weight loss

 

[jobo]

I'm struggling to find some actual science on this, there only appears to be one proper study and that was on rats, most of the hits I get for people saying how good it is, are people who are selling it.

the actual benifots as far as i can deduce, is that it can help with weight loss as it provided an alternate energy source and you therefore don't need to eat as much food to keep going and then its only effective for a few weeks

there seems nothing that suggests that it actual reduces fat other than you don't need to eat as much

the various claims about improving athletic performance etc, I cant find an independent source for at all, in fact as ketones are a less efficient energy source than ,carbs or sugar, common sense says peak performance should fall off, though endurance should be un effected

have you only sciency links

 

[hoshin1600]

If it's the same thing, I listen to joe rogan podcast and he and a bunch of other bjj as mma guys do it. I don't think from all that he has talked about that it is just the drink. It's a diet plan where you cut out all sugars like in bread. The concept is to keep your body burning fat rather than the simple sugars. He said he felt like crap for a month but then his energy and over all health really improved. The drink he takes is only to keep his body in that ketosis state.
I thought about doing it myself but then looking at the ketosis diet there was no way I could be that dedicated. But I did cut down on my sugars and bread. I do get cravings and go off the rails and eat a candy bar or cookies on weekends.

 

[kuniggety]

I know a couple of people who do it too (in the military). And yeah, it seems pretty popular in the BJJ/MMA scene.

The idea is that, without carbs, the body is forced to use its fat stores as its primary food source. It's a slow burning food source and so you don't have any of the effects of ups and downs of blood sugars. Having a healthy amount of fat in your diet also helps make you feel full and is good for testosterone production. I try to watch my carbs because I just start feeling bloated if I eat too many but I can't just cut them out: I like my weekend pizza, donuts, and beer too much.

 

[jobo]

If it's the same thing, I listen to joe rogan podcast and he and a bunch of other bjj as mma guys do it. I don't think from all that he has talked about that it is just the drink. It's a diet plan where you cut out all sugars like in bread. The concept is to keep your body burning fat rather than the simple sugars. He said he felt like crap for a month but then his energy and over all health really improved. The drink he takes is only to keep his body in that ketosis state.
I thought about doing it myself but then looking at the ketosis diet there was no way I could be that dedicated. But I did cut down on my sugars and bread. I do get cravings and go off the rails and eat a candy bar or cookies on weekends.

that what i dont understand about the drink,to put yourself in to ketoses you deprive yourself of carbs, which forces the body to turn your body fat into ketones to fuel your body.

if you take on extra ketones then your body converts less fat and you run off your extra ketones' instead of the ones your body produces, equalling's less fat loss, but you don't feel quite as rubbishy

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm struggling to find some actual science on this, there only appears to be one proper study and that was on rats, most of the hits I get for people saying how good it is, are people who are selling it.

the actual benifots as far as i can deduce, is that it can help with weight loss as it provided an alternate energy source and you therefore don't need to eat as much food to keep going and then its only effective for a few weeks

there seems nothing that suggests that it actual reduces fat other than you don't need to eat as much

the various claims about improving athletic performance etc, I cant find an independent source for at all, in fact as ketones are a less efficient energy source than ,carbs or sugar, common sense says peak performance should fall off, though endurance should be un effected

have you only sciency links

Here's an article that references a pretty good study on the metabolic (weight loss) effects. Some folk bring up some reasonable questions in the comments, and the article's author addresses some of the issues with the claims and assumptions that haven't been established well enough to test properly (the adaptation period, for instance).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

that what i dont understand about the drink,to put yourself in to ketoses you deprive yourself of carbs, which forces the body to turn your body fat into ketones to fuel your body.

if you take on extra ketones then your body converts less fat and you run off your extra ketones' instead of the ones your body produces, equalling's less fat loss, but you don't feel quite as rubbishy

I think the ketones are mainly for the tissues (like the brain) that can't feed off the fatty acids. So, the drink should be (I think) a supplement for a ketosis-inducing diet.

 

[JP3]

Jobo, let me try to find you some good stuff. There are quite a few of the MMA/UFC guys who are using the supplemental ketones now, which was a coincidence for me not a reason.

Also, the ketogenic diet itself.... WAY Hard, I don't think I could do that. Avoid all carbs for a couple of weeks to burn them out of your system, then intake macros on a 60% fats, 30% protein and only 10% carb ratio! Think about what those meals would look like.... sheesh. But, to your question...

Heres the google search of "ketones protein sparing" which leads to articles/pages etc on that issue. Thing is, it's mostly titled towards being IN the ketogenic diet to get into ketosis. That's the thing, witht his drink, you put the ketones in your bod, it gets the uptake done in the initial part of the stomach and small intestine and is right in your system in 30-40 minutes-ish, and Bam... you're in ketosis with all the benefits thereof.

There's a thing about lipid metabolism (ketosis is what happens when that is going on) actually requiring less oxygen to operate, too, which acts as an endurance increasing function.... someone I was talking to yesterday told me about it. I'll see if I can find that.

 

[JP3]

Here's the search on ketones and oxygen use I did, very IN-elegant question form...

ketones less oxygen use during metabolism - Google Search

On which I found quite a bit of geeky medical stuff, but this was there, too:

Dominic D’Agostino: Ketosis & Oxygen Toxicity – #187

 

[CB Jones]

@JP3

Have you tried cloud bread?

It's a no carb bread substitute made from eggs.

I haven't had a chance to make any yet, but plan to when I get a chance.

 

[jobo]

Jobo, let me try to find you some good stuff. There are quite a few of the MMA/UFC guys who are using the supplemental ketones now, which was a coincidence for me not a reason.

Also, the ketogenic diet itself.... WAY Hard, I don't think I could do that. Avoid all carbs for a couple of weeks to burn them out of your system, then intake macros on a 60% fats, 30% protein and only 10% carb ratio! Think about what those meals would look like.... sheesh. But, to your question...

Heres the google search of "ketones protein sparing" which leads to articles/pages etc on that issue. Thing is, it's mostly titled towards being IN the ketogenic diet to get into ketosis. That's the thing, witht his drink, you put the ketones in your bod, it gets the uptake done in the initial part of the stomach and small intestine and is right in your system in 30-40 minutes-ish, and Bam... you're in ketosis with all the benefits thereof.

There's a thing about lipid metabolism (ketosis is what happens when that is going on) actually requiring less oxygen to operate, too, which acts as an endurance increasing function.... someone I was talking to yesterday told me about it. I'll see if I can find that.

but that's the bit that doesn't make sense, I'm not saying it doesn't work, it just doesn't work that way

in ketosis you body turns fat in to ketones, that why you lose fat, just drinking ketones doesn't put you in ketosis, starving yourself of carbs is the only way to do that.

 

[JP3]

but that's the bit that doesn't make sense, I'm not saying it doesn't work, it just doesn't work that way

in ketosis you body turns fat in to ketones, that why you lose fat, just drinking ketones doesn't put you in ketosis, starving yourself of carbs is the only way to do that.

I think I see the disconnect. "Ketosis" is a state in which there are free ketone bodies (acetone, acetoacetic acid, and beta-hydroxybutyric acid) in the bloodstream. If you used a mass spectrometer you could find ketone bodies in anyone's blood, but it's when they get to what the docs call the "therapeutic level" (I know the term, I can't find the concentration per cubic centimeter right now, I read it and didn't note it, shoot!) at that point is when the docs actually call it "ketosis."

And, some research spin-off for the U.S. Navy done by the University of South Florida has figured out how to give you a drink supplement that does that, gives you the ketones straight into your bod, down your throad. I have to tell you, they taste good too. Just look at the abstract of the patent below.

Patent WO2014153416A1 - Compositions and methods for producing elevated and sustained ketosis

Primarily, it's the β-hydroxybutyrate that's combined with MCT fats. What's actually ingested is called a ketone salt, which when dissolved becomes the ketone body itself. I wish you in particular could lay hands on this stuff, I think that, with, no offense, but your age (similar to mine I think), and fitness/MA objectives you'd benefit way good. Work out longer, harder, recovering faster and with less 2nd day and 3rd day soreness. Shoot, my knees don't even hurt anymore. It's something else.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So, @JP3 , what supplements are you actually using? (You might notice that I got more interested when you told me they taste good...)

 

[JP3]

So, @JP3 , what supplements are you actually using? (You might notice that I got more interested when you told me they taste good...)

I did notice that, yup...