Sum Nung Lineage Chi Sao Video.

[dudewingchun]

Found some interesting videos that im quite sure is Sum Nung lineage as I ended up on them through Tom Wong wing chun facebook page.Wandering what you guys think.

And can anyone understand this and possibly give an overview of what going on.

Anyone know what they are meant to be doing in this video ?

The channel is Hklivingmagazine.
Tom wong fb page where found the first video.
Man Tom Wong does a fast front kick on that first video on there fb page

Tom Wong Wing Chun 黄鏵功夫内家詠春,武當太極内功,地術

 

[wckf92]

First video IMO was kind of weird in that there seemed to be a lot of tension(?). Not sure who the older gentlemen is. I did notice the tripole devices in the background. haha. Is this Sum Nung / YKS lineage for sure? I wonder if he (YKS) learned the tripoles from Yip Man or the other way around? Interesting.

Second video, the guy on the right was afraid of the other guys' right hand. Or at least it appeared so...because he kind of had it locked down with a partial grip most of the time whereas his other hand was Fook'ing/Huen'ing/Tan'ing etc as per normal...

 

[Vajramusti]

First video IMO was kind of weird in that there seemed to be a lot of tension(?). Not sure who the older gentlemen is. I did notice the tripole devices in the background. haha. Is this Sum Nung / YKS lineage for sure? I wonder if he (YKS) learned the tripoles from Yip Man or the other way around? Interesting.

Second video, the guy on the right was afraid of the other guys' right hand. Or at least it appeared so...because he kind of had it locked down with a partial grip most of the time whereas his other hand was Fook'ing/Huen'ing/Tan'ing etc as per normal...

-----------------------------------------------Sum Nung is not in those videos--not good examples of his wc imo

 

[geezer]

Second video, the guy on the right was afraid of the other guys' right hand. Or at least it appeared so...because he kind of had it locked down with a partial grip most of the time whereas his other hand was Fook'ing/Huen'ing/Tan'ing etc as per normal...

I don't know if "afraid" is the correct word, but when I see a student using the palm that way instead of a fook sau it is usually a defensive strategy employed to keep the other guy's hand from getting through rather than using a good offensive strategy and seeking an opening to enter through. Such a defensive approach IMO is usually counterproductive in training.

To be clear, using the palm to control the bridge briefly as you make a transition is acceptable ...but when you just hang out there defensively, it becomes a stalling tactic and your chi-sau becomes reactive rather than active. Then you are only postponing the inevitable.

Is it just me or does Sam Kwok also hang out too long in the same defensive palm-on-bridge position in this clip of him rolling arms with Yip Ching?:

 

[wckf92]

I don't know if "afraid" is the correct word, but when I see a student using the palm that way instead of a fook sau it is usually a defensive strategy employed to keep the other guy's hand from getting through rather than using a good offensive strategy and seeking an opening to enter through. Such a defensive approach IMO is usually counterproductive in training.

To be clear, using the palm to control the bridge briefly as you make a transition is acceptable ...but when you just hang out there defensively, it becomes a stalling tactic and your chi-sau becomes reactive rather than active. Then you are only postponing the inevitable.

Is it just me or does Sam Kwok also hang out too long in the same defensive palm-on-bridge position in this clip of him rolling arms with Yip Ching?:

I think he learned the forearm grab / palm on bridge from Ching and Chun. They both do that quite a bit.
Perhaps "afraid" is not a good choice... how about "too much ego" then?

 

[guy b.]

I don't know if "afraid" is the correct word, but when I see a student using the palm that way instead of a fook sau it is usually a defensive strategy employed to keep the other guy's hand from getting through rather than using a good offensive strategy and seeking an opening to enter through. Such a defensive approach IMO is usually counterproductive in training.

Directly opposed to the point of chi sau and to the very idea of wing chun would be another way of saying it.

 

[geezer]

Directly opposed to the point of chi sau and to the very idea of wing chun would be another way of saying it.

Yes, but remember we are being ...tactful, right?

 

[dudewingchun]

-----------------------------------------------Sum Nung is not in those videos--not good examples of his wc imo

Didnt he pass away quite a while ago ? Everything I have read about him indicates he was very very good. Know any good examples of his wing chun ?

 

[Cephalopod]

... using the palm that way instead of a fook sau it is usually a defensive strategy employed to keep the other guy's hand from getting through rather than using a good offensive strategy and seeking an opening to enter through. Such a defensive approach IMO is usually counterproductive in training.

I have found that using the palm like this is actually a very vulnerable defence:
As soon as I feel a palm against my forearm like this, if the contact point is between me and him, I can apply forward pressure with my tan toward his center. He gets 'caught' with the pressure... it very hard for him to release the palm without being hit from my tan-sao side.

As long as I can keep pressure on his center though that hand, I have him like a fish on a hook, making it easier to launch an attack with the other hand, or even just fly off his palm with a sudden roll of the forearm.

If he panics and tightens his grip on that hand to defend himself, his arm stiffens and his situation goes from bad to worse. Standard chin-na ensues. (Unless, of course, he has sick GI-Joe grip. In which case theory flies south for the winter and I'm left with the sole option of kicking him in the nads. ;-)

You're right, at 0:36 of your vid, Sam is inviting this sort of pressure response.

Does this jive with you?