Studying in China

[Just4Kicks]

After I receive my black belt in Taekwondo I'm considering going to China to train in Shaolin Kung fu for a year at a monastery. This is the school:
http://www.shaolins.com/

Has anyone here trained at this school and if so, how was it?

Because I'm Australian, paying in US dollars is going to be costly but I think it'd be worth it. I think that intensive atmosphere would be a great eye opener, a chance for physical and spiritual growth.

Any suggestions or tips would be appreciated.

 

[clfsean]

I've heard recently about some unkind & if true, negligent things concerning them. On a whole for everyuthing I've heard firsthand or read second hand, it (Shaolin) is all about income, poo poo on the student.

You may be better served looking in the south of China for TCMA & not the "Shaolin" experience. There are some very good schools in Hong Kong, Guangzhou, Jiangmen, etc... that are teaching TCMA that aren't involved witht the whole "Shaolin" umbrella.

 

[Flying Crane]

I suspect you may also be able to find some very skilled teachers in your home country. I think the whole "shaolin experience" of living at the temple and whatnot is really kind of a fantasy, and I often wonder if the real experience is not quite what it's cracked up to be...

Your time and energy may be better spent looking around where you are right now.

 

[pstarr]

Yes, I would strongly recommend that you look elsewhere...the "experience" likely consists of sleeping in less than comfortable quarters, lots of exercise (to make you think you're training hard) and...wushu.

 

[kal]

Is Taiwan generally a better place to learn martial arts than the PRC?

 

[Logan]

This is slightly off-topic but I am curious why you will suddenly stop TKD when you reach what is still really only a beginning point in the art, and study a completely different art for just a year? Not meaning to be agressive with this but why Shaolin rather than say, Korea?

Regarding your question though, from my (limited) experience, the actual training is probably fine but two issues you will face are language barriers - explanation of techniques etcs and being ripped off (even though it is comparably much cheaper than your native country). If you can find a local to barter on your behalf (China is a bartering country), you could probably reduce the price of training and accomodation by as much as 600%+

 

[Jade Tigress]

I've heard recently about some unkind & if true, negligent things concerning them. On a whole for everyuthing I've heard firsthand or read second hand, it (Shaolin) is all about income, poo poo on the student.

You may be better served looking in the south of China for TCMA & not the "Shaolin" experience. There are some very good schools in Hong Kong, Guangzhou, Jiangmen, etc... that are teaching TCMA that aren't involved witht the whole "Shaolin" umbrella.

What he said.

 

[Just4Kicks]

I'm not dropping TKD, I just wanted to take a year and train overseas in a new art. After the year is over I'll return and continue my TKD.

I find it strange that here people are really against it whilst elsewhere I've heard nothing but good from training at the temples. Did any of you look at the site and see whether the training there looked valid or is this opinion based on these academies in general? I'm curious.

 

[clfsean]

I'm not dropping TKD, I just wanted to take a year and train overseas in a new art. After the year is over I'll return and continue my TKD.

Then why bother?? A year in CMA will just barely get the basics moving, let alone instilled. Stay with TKD & save the money go to Korea or find a CMA there in Australia, try it, see if you do like it & then maybe see about China later in a school related to what you find in Aus.

I find it strange that here people are really against it whilst elsewhere I've heard nothing but good from training at the temples. Did any of you look at the site and see whether the training there looked valid or is this opinion based on these academies in general? I'm curious.

Yes. Also I've been to China, been to Dengfeng & Shaolin village pre-tear down. It was the same there. Not worth it IMHO.

 

[kal]

I thought that mainland China had a death penalty for fraud and embezzlement.

So how come they are not executing these con-artists who teach nothing but wushu in their "temples"?

 

[clfsean]

I thought that mainland China had a death penalty for fraud and embezzlement.

So how come they are not executing these con-artists who teach nothing but wushu in their "temples"?

Because it's not a crime to give the paying public what they think they want or believe they're going to get. Not saying there aren't good Songshan schools, but IMHO the better TCMA is found in the south, away from Shaolin or anything associated with it.

Commit a crime though against the state & yeah, you've joined the organ donation society.

 

[Flying Crane]

I thought that mainland China had a death penalty for fraud and embezzlement.

So how come they are not executing these con-artists who teach nothing but wushu in their "temples"?

Modern Wushu is heavily promoted by the government as the National Sport and Performance Art of China. The Temples have become little more than tourist attractions, with modern wushu. You can go and train there, you will work hard, but it's unlikely you will learn anything but Modern Wushu. This is done with heavy government backing. So, I don't know if you are correct about a death penalty for fraud and embezzlement, but regardless, the "temple" is doing what the government wants them to do.

 

[clfsean]

Modern Wushu is heavily promoted by the government as the National Sport and Performance Art of China. The Temples have become little more than tourist attractions, with modern wushu. You can go and train there, you will work hard, but it's unlikely you will learn anything but Modern Wushu. This is done with heavy government backing. So, I don't know if you are correct about a death penalty for fraud and embezzlement, but regardless, the "temple" is doing what the government wants them to do.

Nah they're quick to pop a cap in business leaders, party leaders, etc... who turn to taking from the kitty ...

Here, we send'em to a country club jail & say don't do it again & fine a portion of what they stole. There, take it all back, zap 'em & charge the family for the bullet.

 

[newtothe dark]

My understanding is alot of the other temple types ie: omei and emei are now heading the same way. Commercialization can even destroy 1500 year plus traditions it is a shame but buyer beware. Korea and Japan have been the new meca's (no offense intended) as of late. Good luck with your journey.

 

[kal]

Only a couple of months ago, China executed the head of its food and drug administration for taking bribes.

I dunno about the rest of you, but if I had saved up for years to go live my dream of training at the Shaolin Temple, only to find out that I was being fed modern Wushu instead, I'd want to hang the bastards myself.

 

[Xue Sheng]

After I receive my black belt in Taekwondo I'm considering going to China to train in Shaolin Kung fu for a year at a monastery. This is the school:
http://www.shaolins.com/

Has anyone here trained at this school and if so, how was it?

Because I'm Australian, paying in US dollars is going to be costly but I think it'd be worth it. I think that intensive atmosphere would be a great eye opener, a chance for physical and spiritual growth.

Any suggestions or tips would be appreciated.

It is worth it depending on what you are after. If you are after, as you said "physical and spiritual growth" then it is worth it. If you are after traditional Chinese martial arts and an understanding of them then it is not worth it.

As painful as this is for me to admit most of what Shaolin teaches is Wushu by western standards, meaning performance art only. If you want fighting they also teach Sanshou, which also tells me they teach performance only Shaolin styles. However I am not sure which version of sanshou they teach sport or civilian.

 

[Just4Kicks]

I suppose it doesn't faze me that it isn't 'pure', I just want to improve my art really. Do you consider the modern version less effective? I'm after an intense training experience in a foreign country with the chance to improve my physical abilities and art.

I'm going to research into this academy before I go; I'm going to get in contact with former students.

 

[Flying Crane]

I suppose it doesn't faze me that it isn't 'pure', I just want to improve my art really. Do you consider the modern version less effective? I'm after an intense training experience in a foreign country with the chance to improve my physical abilities and art.

I'm going to research into this academy before I go; I'm going to get in contact with former students.

the accomplished wushu competitors are very highly skilled athletes. They are very impressive in their own way. But what they are skilled in is more akin to gymnastics and dance, and not martial arts. Modern wushu is a creation of the Chinese Government, dating back to about the 1950s. They based it on the traditional fighting arts, but they DELIBERATELY CHANGED IT TO EMPHASIZE THE PERFORMANCE ASPECT AND THE COMPETITION ASPECT, AND MINIMIZE ANY USEFUL MARTIAL KNOWLEDGE OR SKILL. Modern Wushu is basically a gymnastics floor routine, that looks a bit like martial arts. Modern Wushu IS NOT A MARTIAL ART. It is beautiful, the competitors are impressive athletes, but so is a gymnast.

If you go to this place, you will probably train hard, and perhaps learn to do some impressive physical skills. But it is not grounded is solid martial arts. You will not be learning a fighting art.

 

[OkinawaPeichin]

Is Taiwan generally a better place to learn martial arts than the PRC?

I asked my teacher about the website posted and also about training in Taiwan.
He trained in both places years ago and said Taiwan has many great teachers that teach for free in the parks all over the country. He also stated that the prices they charge in China at those temples are outrageous and not really worth the moon.

Personally I can't see paying those prices for martial arts instruction in China.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I suppose it doesn't faze me that it isn't 'pure', I just want to improve my art really. Do you consider the modern version less effective? I'm after an intense training experience in a foreign country with the chance to improve my physical abilities and art.

I'm going to research into this academy before I go; I'm going to get in contact with former students.

Flying Crane pretty much covered it. Modern Wushu in China is more performance and acrobatics than a fighting style.

Look at it this way it takes a lot of training in most CMA styles to become an effective fighter and you can't do that in 6 months or a year of 4 years for that matter if you are training a long fist form, a Tongbei form, and Xingyi form, a white crane form. Etc. That is why they tend to throw in Sanshou; to cover the fighting aspect of things.

Nothing wrong with Wushu, in my opinion, if that is what you want to do. It is hard training and it will get you into better shape and likely increase your flexibility. But it is not for fighting and it is not for me.

But as also mentioned by Crane they are beginning to push the limits of what the human b0ody can endure. There are a lot of Chinese Wushu competitors wearing knee braces these days.