Stay in your lane! Or....explore and have fun...

[Jared Traveler]

In the old days.....You couldn't find a qualified instructor in every system. Most people were lucky if you had a martial arts school or two in your city or town. If you wanted to know about another system, it was an often fun process of guesswork and self-discovery. There were no schools, and no internet to go to.

In those days, it was okay for a lot of instructors and gyms, to "experiment" with things they didn't understand. Decoding things you read in books or magazines.

Now however, with so many schools and highly specialized skill sets, the attitude is "stay in your lane." If you teach Karate, stick to karate! Don't experiment with judo throws! If you want to learn judo, find a qualified judo instructor!!! And don't you dare insult BJJ schools by doing any grappling in your gym. Because you aren't qualified to do that!!!!

While I completely understand the value in learning from professionals, I also miss the fun everyone use to have stumbling into uncharted territory. No we didn't always get it right, but often it was close enough to work on an untrained opponent.

I'm sure it's better now, but maybe less fun sometimes.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I don't know if I've encountered so much of a "stay in your lane" attitude. More of a "be honest about your qualifications, how well you know your subject, and how well you've tested what you're teaching" attitude.

For example, if a karate teacher takes the time to learn a few ground fighting basics to help his students survive and get back to their feet when they are taking down, I think that's great. Even if it's just white belt BJJ/Judo material or some beginning wrestling moves, that's still significantly better than nothing and will help the students become more well rounded martial artists. Where I might offer criticism is if the instructor pretends they have a high level of rank or skill in the subject or if they invent garbage techniques that they never test out against competent resisting opponents. (What is particularly egregious is when the instructor touts these garbage techniques as super deadly methods to easily neutralize skilled grapplers.)

I also have no problem with practitioners who are trying to experiment and figure out new things in the absence of supervision by a fully qualified instructor. It's possible to start out with a limited launching pad (books, videos, a seminar, a bit of instruction you had a while back, something that worked for you in a real fight) and with enough hard work, experimentation, and pressure testing end up with a decent degree of functional skill. Heck, that's how the Gracies started the development of what is now BJJ. My only concerns are 1) keep safe, 2) be honest with yourself and others about your current degree of development, and c) constantly test what you come up with.

 

[Buka]

In the old days.....You couldn't find a qualified instructor in every system. Most people were lucky if you had a martial arts school or two in your city or town. If you wanted to know about another system, it was an often fun process of guesswork and self-discovery. There were no schools, and no internet to go to.

In those days, it was okay for a lot of instructors and gyms, to "experiment" with things they didn't understand. Decoding things you read in books or magazines.

Now however, with so many schools and highly specialized skill sets, the attitude is "stay in your lane." If you teach Karate, stick to karate! Don't experiment with judo throws! If you want to learn judo, find a qualified judo instructor!!! And don't you dare insult BJJ schools by doing any grappling in your gym. Because you aren't qualified to do that!!!!

While I completely understand the value in learning from professionals, I also miss the fun everyone use to have stumbling into uncharted territory. No we didn't always get it right, but often it was close enough to work on an untrained opponent.

I'm sure it's better now, but maybe less fun sometimes.

I was fortunate to grow up where there were a lot of Martial Arts places. I became friends with all of them and trained at their dojos. Learned a lot from those folks, some of which we implemented into our dojo because it was better than what we were doing - or taught it in a more effective way.

We put grappling into our dojo as well, as per the instruction of those that taught us. It worked well. Sure was a lot of fun.

I think Tony said it best in his post. (not parts of it, all of it.)

 

[drop bear]

I don't know if I've encountered so much of a "stay in your lane" attitude. More of a "be honest about your qualifications, how well you know your subject, and how well you've tested what you're teaching" attitude.

For example, if a karate teacher takes the time to learn a few ground fighting basics to help his students survive and get back to their feet when they are taking down, I think that's great. Even if it's just white belt BJJ/Judo material or some beginning wrestling moves, that's still significantly better than nothing and will help the students become more well rounded martial artists. Where I might offer criticism is if the instructor pretends they have a high level of rank or skill in the subject or if they invent garbage techniques that they never test out against competent resisting opponents. (What is particularly egregious is when the instructor touts these garbage techniques as super deadly methods to easily neutralize skilled grapplers.)

I also have no problem with practitioners who are trying to experiment and figure out new things in the absence of supervision by a fully qualified instructor. It's possible to start out with a limited launching pad (books, videos, a seminar, a bit of instruction you had a while back, something that worked for you in a real fight) and with enough hard work, experimentation, and pressure testing end up with a decent degree of functional skill. Heck, that's how the Gracies started the development of what is now BJJ. My only concerns are 1) keep safe, 2) be honest with yourself and others about your current degree of development, and c) constantly test what you come up with.

My coach kind of sort of did that. There just wasn't any instruction around.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/aussie-ufc-fighter-anton-zafir-takes-long-road-to-the-big-time-in-while-holding-down-teaching-job/news-story/de68f1cf0525b72ccbe9f12ea1c4501b

 

[skribs]

I don't know if I've encountered so much of a "stay in your lane" attitude. More of a "be honest about your qualifications, how well you know your subject, and how well you've tested what you're teaching" attitude.

I've seen it. People will say things like, "If you do grappling in your Taekwondo class, quit that class. Because the grappling you learn in Taekwondo is going to be worse than if you were untrained, because everything they do is wrong."

I've also seen it as, "If you do Taekwondo, and you do it for fun, that's fine. But if you think anything you're learning will help you in a fight, you're crazy." Which is basically to put Taekwondo into the category of a 2nd-class or C-Tier martial art.

 

[skribs]

You hear a lot of things in martial arts. Often they conflict. People will latch onto some specific detail about a school and think that's critically important for success. For example, if you don't spend X amount of time on warmups, then your school is just academic and not physical. Or if you spend more than X amount of time on warmups, your school is just wasting time because they don't know enough technique. (See how those two conflict?).

I've been active on this forum and active in Taekwondo and Hapkido for many years. I keep hearing over and over again that the grappling I learn in those arts is useless. A BJJ white belt will mop the floor with me. A wrestler will mop the floor with me.

Well, I finally started doing a "real" martial art in BJJ. Been at it for 3 weeks now. And yes, the colored belts mop the floor with me. But I hold my own against the white belts, including having a very dominating presence against the newest of them. I've always postulated that the grappling we learn is better than an untrained person, and that has been validated by taking BJJ. Am I good enough to roll with a purple belt? No. He's much better trained for that situation.

 

[Jared Traveler]

I've seen it. People will say things like, "If you do grappling in your Taekwondo class, quit that class. Because the grappling you learn in Taekwondo is going to be worse than if you were untrained, because everything they do is wrong."

I've also seen it as, "If you do Taekwondo, and you do it for fun, that's fine. But if you think anything you're learning will help you in a fight, you're crazy." Which is basically to put Taekwondo into the category of a 2nd-class or C-Tier martial art.

This is what I'm talking about. I think there are two ways of looking at it. On the one hand, yes, you will get better training if learning from someone who specializes in grappling. For sure!!! But if I'm committed to a TKD class, could I benefit from learning something about grappling, as opposed to remaining completely ignorant of it?

I think it's clear the ideal is a qualified instructor. However I also think a lot of instructors need to lighten up. Everything has got so serious, cut throat and catty as an "industry."

 

[Olde Phart]

What you have brought up is a topic that drives me crazy! Not that YOU are goofy; it's all those MA trolls that think their "way" is the only way and any deviation is sacrilege. I've watched those famous movies (Kung Fu Panda) and those famous actors (Jackie Chan), and the one thing I've noticed is that while they have their odd and defining moves, they all have kicks and punches. I see the same kicks and punches I'm learning in my dojang. So many want to be the "bad-***" of the block, yet there are a lot of us that want to be "good".

Our dojang teaches a multitude of techniques to make a well-rounded martial artist. Kyuki-do was established as a federation in the 70's. It teaches parts of TKD, Judo and Hapkido. that doesn't mean I'm a TKD master, or a Judo or Hapkido 5th dan. It means I've learned lots of stuff from various disciplines. Sometimes, it is the doorway to more personalized training (my daughters have gone on to practice jiu jitsu - one of which has medaled in tournaments).

Yes, follow your interests. Have fun with the journey, because it's YOURS to enjoy.

 

[skribs]

it's all those MA trolls that think their "way" is the only way and any deviation is sacrilege

There's an old joke I heard in church about a couple of Christians, which I'll replace with martial artists.

Bob is driving across a bridge, when he sees a man about to jump. He decides to do a good deed and try to talk him out of jumping.
Bob: Don't jump! It's not worth it! There has to be something in life to hold onto!
Jumper: There's nothing.
Bob: Can you find something? Like me, I train martial arts! I couldn't imagine not being able to train anymore.
Jumper: Oh, wow! I train martial arts, too! What do you do, striking or grappling?
Bob: Striking!
Jumper: Me too! I do an Asian style.
Bob: Wow, so do I! Specifically, Korean.
Jumper: Korean? Me too! In fact, I do Taekwondo!
Bob: No kidding? I do Kukkiwon Taekwondo!
Jumper: Kukkiwon Taekwondo! Same here! My school does the Palgwe forms, which does yours do?
Bob: *Pushes the jumper off the bridge*, we do the Taegeuks at my school.

I've gotten into arguments with people who want to try and do everything from striking vs. grappling, to "if you don't do at least 15 minutes of warmups each class, your school is trash." People pick the strangest hills.

 

[Buka]

I've seen it. People will say things like, "If you do grappling in your Taekwondo class, quit that class. Because the grappling you learn in Taekwondo is going to be worse than if you were untrained, because everything they do is wrong."

I've also seen it as, "If you do Taekwondo, and you do it for fun, that's fine. But if you think anything you're learning will help you in a fight, you're crazy." Which is basically to put Taekwondo into the category of a 2nd-class or C-Tier martial art.

I guess that could be said of any Martial Art. I've been to a lot of different schools, some were okay, some were fricken crazy good fun.

I hope everybody gets to experience crazy, good fun training at some point in their lives.

 

[skribs]

I guess that could be said of any Martial Art. I've been to a lot of different schools, some were okay, some were fricken crazy good fun.

I hope everybody gets to experience crazy, good fun training at some point in their lives.

On the community I'm referring to, it gets said of any of the art that's not part of what I call the "MMA clique" (MMA, boxing, kickboxing, muay thai, BJJ, Judo, and wrestling).