Spontaneity

[Zoran]

How many people here practice there self-defense with spontaneity. Example; you have your training partner in front of you and he/she attacks you with any strike, kick, or so on without you knowing what is to come. The attack comes at you at full speed, with control of course. From there you can have the attacker come at you with any 1-2 combo as you get more comfortable (more advanced, brown and up).

Reason why I ask is sometimes we can get wrapped up in exploring the various SD techs, forms, and exploring the tools of Kenpo, that we may neglect working on our ability to react to less than ideal situations. Why? Well it's not always fun to work these drills. Especially when what you planned to do goes south for the winter.

For those that do, what other sort of drills do you use?

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by Zoran

How many people here practice there self-defense with spontaneity. Example; you have your training partner in front of you and he/she attacks you with any strike, kick, or so on without you knowing what is to come. The attack comes at you at full speed, with control of course. From there you can have the attacker come at you with any 1-2 combo as you get more comfortable (more advanced, brown and up).

Reason why I ask is sometimes we can get wrapped up in exploring the various SD techs, forms, and exploring the tools of Kenpo, that we may neglect working on our ability to react to less than ideal situations. Why? Well it's not always fun to work these drills. Especially when what you planned to do goes south for the winter.

For those that do, what other sort of drills do you use?

I don't practice Kenpo, but to jujitsu, and Aikido. I've done this, and still do. It's great pratice, and even harder if there is multiple attackers. Multiple attackers have to them take abit consideration, like not hitting a person in back of the head. But this gives a good pratice ...


/Yari

 

[AvPKenpo]

Spontaneity is one the FUNNEST ways to practice kenpo. There is nothing like somebody throwing any number of combinations and your body reacts to that and does combinations of techniques that you never thought of putting together. It is an excellent way to practice your self-defense in any art.

Michael

 

[KoshoBob]

Yep, we have a bunch of fun drills. I stand behind the defender and 3 or 4 attackers face us. I point to a random attacker and they charge the defender with any technique they want. Another variation is the attackers have shields so the defender can counter with more force.

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Zoran

How many people here practice there self-defense with spontaneity. Example; you have your training partner in front of you and he/she attacks you with any strike, kick, or so on without you knowing what is to come. The attack comes at you at full speed, with control of course. From there you can have the attacker come at you with any 1-2 combo as you get more comfortable (more advanced, brown and up).

Reason why I ask is sometimes we can get wrapped up in exploring the various SD techs, forms, and exploring the tools of Kenpo, that we may neglect working on our ability to react to less than ideal situations. Why? Well it's not always fun to work these drills. Especially when what you planned to do goes south for the winter.

For those that do, what other sort of drills do you use?

This is something one can never get enough of!:asian:

 

[Roland]

I find some instructors burn their students out by moving into this way too soon.

Then, of course, there are the schools that never reach this level!

Where & when would you say your students should really work this in? I mean, I feel like they should have a strong base to work from first, and that like eveything else, this should be done in a progressive way.
That way everyone has a chance to learn and explore, not just those with natural ability.

 

[tonbo]

We use a variation on our "circle drills" concept.

When we practice with random responses (spontaneity drills), we usually have a group of three or four people. One person is "it", and the other two or three form a half circle or a "wedge" around the person who is "it". Then, the "attackers" throw a punch (or a combo, if advanced) and the person who is "it" defends.

This is worked at various speeds and difficulties, depending on the rank of the class.

If you *really* want to mess it up a bit more, let everyone move around a bit, so it becomes kind of a slow-motion sparring. That is fun, too.....but requires a bit more control.

Peace--

 

[tshadowchaser]

I am not theaching kenpo but we do use a version of the "circle drill" and once in a while I will tell the students that durring the next wee someone differant each night will be free to attack anyone at any time. Sometimes the attacker only has till a certian time to attack after that someone else has the option. Keps people on their toes and stops them from becomeing overly jumpy at the same time.
Shadow:asian:

 

[Zoran]

Originally posted by Roland

I find some instructors burn their students out by moving into this way too soon.

I agree up to a point. I think it's not that they move them in to soon, more of moving them to fast. I feel that at intermediate level would be a good time to start the process, slowly. This will prepare them for the more advanced drills.

Then, of course, there are the schools that never reach this level!

We get quite a few other martial artists at our school. If you are from a sport or mcdojo school, I can understand having problems with self-defense. Now somtimes we get a Kenpoist, black belt, come to our school. I've found some that have a hard time with self-defense in a less that ideal situation. That can burn me up.:angry:

I feel like they should have a strong base to work from first, and that like eveything else, this should be done in a progressive way.

Agreed.

 

[Roland]

He was saying that he has the students form a circle, and they start to attack the person in the middle, one at a time, and then it gets faster and faster, until the one in the middle has had enough. They do this regardless of rank or experience, and only about once a month. This is their version of self-defense training. What some of you are calling circle drils.
This is what I call too little too late. Too much for beginners, too little for advanced students.
I told him about starting my Beginners with basic line drills, every class, and some of the progession that goes on from there.
And he asked for my permission to steal the idea.
From a supposed Kenpo school instructor.

Sheeeeeesh!
:soapbox:

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by Roland

I find some instructors burn their students out by moving into this way too soon.

Then, of course, there are the schools that never reach this level!

Where & when would you say your students should really work this in? I mean, I feel like they should have a strong base to work from first, and that like eveything else, this should be done in a progressive way.
That way everyone has a chance to learn and explore, not just those with natural ability.

I think they can start from day one, just don'thave high expectations. And that accounts both for teacher and Tori.
The "spontanious" attack has to fit the level of the pupil, no matter what.

The question behind spontainious, is reading the oppenent. The more you learn, it becomes easier to read and react. The second part is conditioning your body to react "correctly". Both these things grow and get better by time. Therefor Uke has to be "better" than tori, or this has no help at all. In other words, on a new fress pupil, there's no problem for him/her to experience this and get something good out of it. But it should be a major part of your training, or it'll ruin your technique.


/Yari

 

[Seig]

Kind of an oxymoron. Getting people to be spontaneous in their actions seems to be a goal of all serios self-defense instructors. A certain amount of that seems to come through when students are at lower ranks and confronted, unexpectedly. I have seen more of them loose their composure when against an expected attacker. I also do the circle drills where I throw people at the person in the center randomly (sometimes this is literal), but to be honest, I do this for my own amusement. After the drill is over, I use it as an opportunity. I have each "monkey" critque their own actions. I then have them develop some sort of "plan", then I drop it for a week or tow and then do it again. They often make the same mistakes. The point of it is this, learn from your mistakes in a safe environment. Occassionally, I put myself in the middle. What I do is then demonstrate something so brutal, that had it been an actual street attack, the first "attacker" would not be getting back up without the aid of EMS. Please notice I said "brutal", not complex. As a very wise man recently pointed out to me, our more advanced techniques seem to be a reworking of the beginner techniques ( I paraphrased and simplified, don't hurt me). I have begun re-examining the techniques, in a whole new light. (You know who you are, and thank you). One of the pitfalls that I see quite a few intermediate and advanced sttudents fall into is this, and some of you may have heard this, "Well, I wouldn't do this, I would do....". How many of you have been somewhere and seen an unsavory character (not unlike myself) and said, "if that (insert expletive here) comes up to me, I'm going to..." My approach is to keep working the Key Techniques, until they become spontaneous. Once you have done that, you can plan the rest of what you are going to do.
Just my approach.

PS. The wiseman, I referred to. I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation, made me feel like a white belt all over again! Thank you, sir!

 

[tonbo]

One thing we work on with our lower belt students is the "circle shield" drill. Similar to the technique circle, we put a student in the center of a circle of other students, all of whom have either a kick shield or a blocker of some type. We then give the student in the center 30 seconds to hit all of the shields/blockers. They can use any strikes/kicks/combos up to their level, and don't have to follow any pattern. The people holding the bags/shields/blockers can angle them or move them prior to and following their being hit, but not during. This drill allows people to start to see how they work with randomness, and also how to do things "outside the structure", while still using the tools.

You can also do this against a stationary bag (heavy bag). Give the student 30 seconds to just wail on the bag with whatever tools they have. The only rule in this one is that they cannot stop for those 30 seconds. That is a fun one, too.

Finally, you can move this up to advanced students. Give them a partner and have them do a modified 3-count sparring: Have one attack with a kick or strike, and the partner react bodily to how this would impact them (doubling over after being kicked to the gut, etc.). The first "attacker" does three strikes, with the partner reacting to each "strike". After the first person has done three strikes, then the roles switch. However, the former "defender" (now the attacker) has to start his/her attack from the position that they were in after the third strike.

That is an eye opening drill, sometimes. You can wind up in some really interesting situations.....

You can also have the partners "suit up" and do the "wail on each other in turns for 30 seconds" drill--one partner attacks, the other just defends, then they switch. Main rule: No excessive contact--this is a DRILL, not a beating session!!

Whoops. Rambled again. Sorry.......

Peace--

 

[Goldendragon7]

But he couldn't remember the techniques...

:rofl:

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

But he couldn't remember the techniques...

:rofl:

Liar, I am the King of Tracy Kenpo! I know all, see all!:samurai:

 

[Seig]

Just doesn't always remember it all.....:rofl:

 

[Goldendragon7]

** giggle **

 

[Sandor]

Originally posted by Zoran

How many people here practice there self-defense with spontaneity. Example; you have your training partner in front of you and he/she attacks you with any strike, kick, or so on without you knowing what is to come. The attack comes at you at full speed, with control of course. From there you can have the attacker come at you with any 1-2 combo as you get more comfortable (more advanced, brown and up).

Reason why I ask is sometimes we can get wrapped up in exploring the various SD techs, forms, and exploring the tools of Kenpo, that we may neglect working on our ability to react to less than ideal situations. Why? Well it's not always fun to work these drills. Especially when what you planned to do goes south for the winter.

For those that do, what other sort of drills do you use?

Ahhh.. Zoran, always thinking outside of the 'box'. Gotta love that. Here is an idea I got from Ed Parker Jr a few years ago; Take a class full of people outside into the parking lot and have them do forms and selfdefense techs in all sorts of places; between cars, next to walls, around columns, in the dirt, on the grass, standing on parking bumpers, in an elevator etc. Let me know what happens

Peace,
Sandor

 

[Goldendragon7]

you have,

Motion........
Emotion.......
and
COMMOTION!!

:bomb:

 

[Zoran]

Originally posted by Sandor


Here is an idea I got from Ed Parker Jr a few years ago; Take a class full of people outside into the parking lot and have them do forms and selfdefense techs in all sorts of places; between cars, next to walls, around columns, in the dirt, on the grass, standing on parking bumpers, in an elevator etc. Let me know what happens

Peace,
Sandor

Besides getting arrested?

Seriously though, using the outdoors on occasion is a great way to help with the evironment factor. Also good to make sure you are wearing street clothes and shoes during these sessions.