Socialists around the world cheer democrat wins

[KarateKowboy]

If democrats really beleive on freedom, then how come the world's socialists are so happy?

European Socialists eager to work with U.S. Democrats


....."Socialist leaders attending a meeting of the European Socialist Party pledged that with the Democrats on the rise, strong ties could be renewed with the United States after years of cool relations with Republican President George W. Bush. Howard Dean, chairman of the national committee of the U.S. Democratic Party, is attending the two-day conference together with the leaders of leftist governments of several countries and party leaders from across Europe.
"We are not anti-American, we want the real America, your America," former Danish Prime Minister Poul Nyrup Rasmussen, president of the European Socialist Party, said in remarks directed at Dean."...


Sure, they're not anti-American. They just want wants best for us - socialism. And they know that is the goal of the democrat party.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Short answer... Democrats are the lesser of two evils. Now party on!:cheers:

 

[Flying Crane]

Perhaps you could kick off the discussion by describing socialism as you understand it, and exactly why you object so strongly to it, and why you feel it would be a terrible thing for the USA.

 

[Flying Crane]

Short answer... Democrats are the lesser of two evils. Now party on!:cheers:

At this point in history, I would agree. Of course this will not always be the case.

 

[Phoenix44]

Perhaps you could kick off the discussion by describing socialism as you understand it, and exactly why you object so strongly to it, and why you feel it would be a terrible thing for the USA

.

And even more importantly, why would it be a problem for the US to communicate with socialists, communists, or capitalists?

 

[KarateKowboy]

Socialism is wrong for America because we value freedom.
The only way to enforce socialism is the same way it is always done - kill or imprison those who do nto embrace the extreme limits on thier freedom.

In a socialist society, you generally have 2 classes. The wealthy governing class and the working poor who slave away to support them. In a free/capitalist society, you generally have 3 classes - poor, middle class and rich. And there is an oppertunity to move up to a higher class if you are smart enough and put out the effort.

We have seen the failure of socialism around the world. It even failed here when the Pilgrims forst tried it - they nearly all starved to death the first winter. They did away with it and made each person repsonsible for themselves. The following winter saw an abundance of food.

If you want to see more failed socialism here, just look at social security. It's an impossible situation. We have to keep borrowing money to pay all the people collecting. Look at the public education system - it declined steadily for years - now it's a dismal failure. For a decent education kids either need to be home schooled, go to private school

Look at all the failed socialized health care systems around the world. Those with money have to come here to get acceptable medical care.

IN short, socialism enslaves people, discourages creativity and individual thought, drains encominc resources without replacing anything and eventually bankrupts everything. It has been proven time and time again that socialism simply can not work. Yet, the democrats still keep telling us it's the best way.

Socialism was offered to the world by the Russians as the only alternative to Fascism. But we have proven over and over again that freedom will always be best.

 

[Flying Crane]

Still hoping you can give an actual definition and perhaps generic examples of what you understand socialism to be...

 

[Marginal]

Socialism is wrong for America because we value freedom.

Mr. Colbert, you already have a successful show on basic cable.

 

[michaeledward]

Socialism is wrong for America because we value freedom.

Do we?

Hmm ... where did I see that ....

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=676159&postcount=1


1 out of every 32 adult American's are currently under the supervision of the United States Justice System; imprisoned, or on probation, or on parole. More than 7 million Americans.

I find it hard to believe that a nation that keeps so many people in a state of 'non-freedom', can honestly say that it values freedom.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Socialism (a la Wikipedia):
Socialism refers to a broad array of doctrines or political movements that envisage a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to social control. This control may be either direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or it may be indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state. As an economic system, socialism is often associated with state, community or worker ownership of the means of production.

Socialism (a la Websters.com): Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.


The problem with socialism is that governments are inherently inefficient. Look around the world and you will see higher unemployment then the U.S., waiting lines for medical services, and higher waste.

It also stifles the working class. The U.S. workforce has the highest production capacity in the world, based on the fact that the harder you work, the more money (or success) you will have (generally speaking that is).

It is also unfair to those that work hard. I work harder making "widgets" then my fellow co-worker, but he makes the exact same as me. So why work so hard.

Just a few thoughts about it before dinner, and spending time with my lovely new wife.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Max Weber lives! Large governing bodies are always inefficient. And we are already in a socialist republic. Sort of by definition. Do you own an interstate? Nope. But the management and development funds and activities are administered on your behalf (ideally) by elected officials and those they appoint and/or hire under their oversight.

And, for you history buffs out there, there's been a party role reversal in the last hundred years with respect to asset distribution, and stances on international military policy. It will no doubt swing again, if in fact it lasts long enough to.

Dave

 

[Tez3]

The idea of 'socialism' I think is far broader than just those examples quoted from Wikipedia and Websters. Many of us in the UK would say we are socialist but by those definitions we wouldn't be described as such. Tony Blair and the Labour governments are socialists. The labour Party is a Socialist party.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Because Democrats are socialists....prepare to pay the taxman.

 

[Tez3]

If democrats really beleive on freedom, then how come the world's socialists are so happy?

European Socialists eager to work with U.S. Democrats


....."Socialist leaders attending a meeting of the European Socialist Party pledged that with the Democrats on the rise, strong ties could be renewed with the United States after years of cool relations with Republican President George W. Bush. Howard Dean, chairman of the national committee of the U.S. Democratic Party, is attending the two-day conference together with the leaders of leftist governments of several countries and party leaders from across Europe.
"We are not anti-American, we want the real America, your America," former Danish Prime Minister Poul Nyrup Rasmussen, president of the European Socialist Party, said in remarks directed at Dean."...


Sure, they're not anti-American. They just want wants best for us - socialism. And they know that is the goal of the democrat party.

I think you are confusing Socialism and Communism here, Denmark could never be described as a communist country, far from it. Britain has had several Socialist governments, we have at the moment and we've never been communist either.No European country is and we've all had socialist goverments at some time or another.

 

[CoryKS]

This quote pretty much sums it up:

Wherever there is a jackboot stomping on a human face there will be a well-heeled Western liberal to explain that the face does, after all, enjoy free health care and 100 percent literacy. -- John Derbyshire

 

[Tez3]

There are no communist governments in Europe! In fact there are Christian Socialist parties. Please get over this thing that we are all communists! European Socialism is not what you seem to think it is! As I have said Tony Blair and his party are Socialist and you have not problem accepting that! (Liking him and his party is a different matter but he's not communist!)

 

[jazkiljok]

I think you are confusing Socialism and Communism here, Denmark could never be described as a communist country, far from it. Britain has had several Socialist governments, we have at the moment and we've never been communist either.No European country is and we've all had socialist goverments at some time or another.

i thought Sweden and Finland were run mostly by socialists too for a long while... and isn't vietnam still communist? didn't George W. go there recently to shore up our relationship.

and what's to be happy about? what are socialists thinking that the democrats are going to do that's so nefarious in karatekowboy's mind?

i thought the democrats were the liberal freedom lovers?-- and that according to the neocons was their problem. you know screw who you want, marry who you want, peace not war, have your privacy protected even at the cost of having big brother having to seek judicial permission to spy on you cause you were unfortunate enough to have parents who bestowed upon you the name of osima benny ladenne.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

From Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Democrats

Social democracy is often distinguished from democratic socialism on the basis that most social democrats would be content with a society that combined elements of capitalism and socialism, while democratic socialists still have the objective of establishing, by democratic means, a wholly socialist society with a socialist economic system. Some observers claim, however, that democratic socialists are in fact simply left-wing social democrats; and, conversely, many social democrats openly acknowledge their Marxist inheritance and debate politics in terms that many more orthodox Marxists would recognise.

Some "democratic socialist" parties and individuals are arguably more accurately classed as social democratic, and vice versa, the misleading terms being used for historical reasons.

Many social democratic parties have sought to distance themselves from their democratic socialist counterparts, particularly with the rise of the Third Way movement. Some democratic socialists remain associated with social democratic parties, however, in an effort to render them more avowedly socialist.

 

[Tez3]

The idea of Swedes and Finns being communist is laughable! the Swedes have arguably the highest standard of living in the world! Volvo anyone? Vietnam is not in Europe!

 

[Flying Crane]

It looks to me like there is no real, clear, single definition of "socialism". It can take many guises, and some in practice have been more successful than others. Some systems are more socialistic than others, but it is an element of virtually all political systems to some degree, including the US and its allies and friends.

I think the term itself is another dirty word in US politics, designed to strike fear into the hearts of those who aren't well educated politically, which is the vast majority of those in the US. Those with a political agenda to sell, like to throw these terms around to control the political thinking of others, and cut chasms between people who happen to have different ideas of what makes for a good political system, rather than keeping an open mind and looking for what might be good in a system and incorporating it into the current system for the betterment of all.

Socialists are just another bogeyman that all good, god-fearing, obedient, patriotic Americans are supposed to hate and revile and fear. pretty sad, people spreading hate and fear like this...