So now you're a black belt...

[Gordon Nore]

matt m.'s thread http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57391 about common beginner questions got me thinking about something that has been circling my grey matter for awhile. First, a little story...

Shortly after beginning my training in 1995, I happened to discover that co-worker of mine was a long time karateka and student under Masami Tsuruoka O-Sensei, whom I would soon learn was a pioneer and ambassador Chito-Ryu in Canada, later being described by the federal government as the Father of Karate in Canada and winning the Order of Ontario.

http://pages.interlog.com/~brat/tkf/foulkes.htm

Tsuruoka O-Sensei walked up to my friend the day he got his first dan and said, "So you're a black belt. Now it's time to learn karate."

Years later that notion hit me like a sledgehammer, in that I find myself critically revisiting everything that I have learned over the last many years and taking serious stalk of myself. Sometimes, I'll have an epiphany. Sometimes I'll look at something I'm doing and think to myself, Have you still not figured out how to do this.

Any other post-dan catharsis stories out there?

 

[Kacey]

Post-dan catharsis stories? Can't think of any at the moment.

However, I definitely agree that black belt is the beginning - not the ultimate goal that many (dare I say most?) students believe it to be.

 

[exile]

Well, I won't be taking my dan test till this coming spring, maybe summer. But I'll say this: I didn't start learning my academic discipline till I'd gotten my Ph.D. And most of my colleagues, I know, would say the same thing. The `terminal degree' just equips you to start the process of your own in-depth education. And I see no reason why the BB would be any different.

I mean, think about it: how many times do we say about something: if only I'd known then what I know now...—meaning, think how much smarter I'd be now, if that had only been true. Well, getting an advanced degree, or a dan ranking, is really just that: getting yourself `smart' enough so that you're really in a position to start learning things in depth.

In a way, the important thing about doctorates and dans isn't what you know at the end of them, but the process by which you got to that point, which you can (and should!) still pursue afterwards. Those milestones proclaim that you've learned how to learn. Getting your dan ranking in effect teaches you how to learn and refine your art.... which is of course the whole point of what that master karateka told the chap you mentioned in your post. Most of learning a discipline or a field of study is learning what's at issue there, what the alternatives are, and how to test out different possibilities to find what works and what doesn't...

 

[kidswarrior]

Most of learning a discipline or a field of study is learning what's at issue there, what the alternatives are, and how to test out different possibilities to find what works and what doesn't...

Couldn't agree more, Exile. Up to 1st degree, I did little real questioning, never really had time to think about alternatives--especially not better alternatives--and of course wasn't really *permitted* to test out things to see if they worked; of course they worked, my instructor(s) said so.

Since about 2nd degree, and especially after, it's been the opposite. Now, it's Why and How do the most basic things work, What if I can make it/them better, So What does it mean for me and those in my charge? And the 'answers' now seem to be moving targets. But man it's fun, this open-ended pursuit of 'Best practice'.

 

[Steel Tiger]

"So you're a black belt. Now it's time to learn karate."

This, I think, needs to be written on dojo walls in letters ten feet high . It reminds you that a black belt means you have only gone, at most, half way through your journey, and really its much less.

It was driven home to me after I had gained my black sash. There was no more written curriculum. It was not a case of having learned it all either. My teacher said it is now that we truly examine what we have learned, we develop new theories and techniques, we explore variations on known techniques, we add to knowledge through study and experience.

 

[Omar B]

Oh, black belt for me was when the training got really difficult. Like everything before that was a precursor to this.

 

[Christina05]

This, I think, needs to be written on dojo walls in letters ten feet high . It reminds you that a black belt means you have only gone, at most, half way through your journey, and really its much less.

I couldn't agree more

 

[ejaazi]

Many people in my art who have attained the level of black belt, understand that it is really just the beginning. Thus, they continue to wear a white belt in order to maintain a "beginners" mind.

 

[wade]

ejaazi, did I get this right? A person who has been promoted to black belt in your art will continue to wear a white belt in order to maintain a beginners mind? Geeze, what a load of crap. If it was one of my students and they wanted to be a white belt that is what they would be and then they would never have to worry about losing that, uh, beginners mind. So sorry but that is so sad.........................

So, uh, if every one is wearing white belts in your style, uh, who teaches the classes?

 

[Big Don]

It is Shakespearian, The Past Is Prologue...
All the work expended is just to get you to the point where you can really start understanding how things work.
This is true in many areas, that it is also true in martial arts is not really surprising.

 

[Guardian]

The attainment of Black Belt, just the beginning, true followers of the MAs understand that. To bad it's a lost concept now a days to many.

 

[newGuy12]

Well, getting an advanced degree, or a dan ranking, is really just that: getting yourself `smart' enough so that you're really in a position to start learning things in depth.

Haha -- once I saw this: A group of new grad students went into the first class of Classical Mechanics. They were stoked. After all, Classical Mechanics are the basis of everything, really. They could dive right in. After all, they had seen much, and what else could there really be to learn?

The Professor talked about Hamilton, the physics man, William Rowan Hamilton. And then he laid down the story of Generalized Coordinates.

Now, it took all the hour to make the point. When they walked out, three of them stood there, silent. One guy then said, "This is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen in my life!" Haha! Little did they know how little they knew!!!

Now, I have not pursued this, but I have truly seen WHY people go so far down the rabbit hole. Why are they willingly kept away in some boring laboratory for far too many hours a day, sacrificing their lives away? For this. They are chasing this knowledge AT DEPTH, and there is a price to be paid for it.

I have enough sense to know that there is SO MUCH in TKD (much less in Martial Arts in general) that I am not even aware of! But that does not cause me grief. As a matter of fact, I myself am quite comfortable in embracing the "basic techniques". I think the sheer persistence in the practice takes one deeper into understanding of the motions. Sometimes you just have to feel it in your own body.

 

[Tez3]

ejaazi, did I get this right? A person who has been promoted to black belt in your art will continue to wear a white belt in order to maintain a beginners mind? Geeze, what a load of crap. If it was one of my students and they wanted to be a white belt that is what they would be and then they would never have to worry about losing that, uh, beginners mind. So sorry but that is so sad.........................

So, uh, if every one is wearing white belts in your style, uh, who teaches the classes?

Bit harsh that Wade! If that's what suits them surely it's not a problem? Others don't have to follow their way. Many people maintain belts and gradings are a waste of time, that they don't need a coloured or black belt to know what standard they are. I happen to disagree with that but I wouldn't say it was crap, just a different point of view.

 

[Kreth]

I think if most of us are being honest, we'd admit that black belt was a big deal. Somewhere along the way, you realize that it's just another step in your training, not the end.
Then of course, there's those that never get it, and play into the public perception of black belt = mastery...
Just out of curiosity, how many of you who aren't in an overly formal style that requires a full uniform at all time, even wear your black belt on a regular basis? Personally, I only wear mine when I'm doing sword training, or working on throws that require a dogi top.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Just out of curiosity, how many of you who aren't in an overly formal style that requires a full uniform at all time, even wear your black belt on a regular basis?

Well today the belt I am wearing is brown, but it is reversible that the other side is black

I am not a black belt in my style and I never will be and it really does not matter to me. There are no belts or sashes in the Taiji style I train or any formal uniform either.

However I did have a bit of an epiphany when I started learning Tung Shigong's second fast form (combination of Yang and Hao styles). It is an advanced form and all of a sudden everything started to click that I had been training with my Sifu and told by my Sifu over the last several years.

 

[kamishinkan]

Interesting post. Being in a more "formal' art we wear our Gi and belt at all times.
As far as the post, I also notice that even among people who adhere to the Black Belt as beginner thought (I am one of these) most do not even mention the continuing training through the Dan ranks that drive a person toward a defined goal. I mean to say this....Even among the BB as beginners crowd, the student is then at a place to "experiment". I sort of agree with this, although I find some experimentation at brown belt levels very normal, I do not believe that at the Shodan (or 1st BB level) the student now has the understanding to begin full fledged experimentation. In our art, you are not even considered at a "teaching" level until Sandan (3rd BB level). My point is there is enough to be learned in most arts to keep a person on the learning process to last a lifetime. Experimentation and variations happen along the training "path", but devotion to the system into upper Dan level training is the point. We never stop learning and hopefully the art we train in has continuing Black Belt rank information to keep the student in the learning "mode" for many years AFTER they reach the 1st BB.

By the way I think I will use the "So your a Black Belt, now it's time to learn karate" That is pretty good!

 

[wade]

Lets see if I can clarify my statement some. The "crap" comment was about wearing a "white" belt even if you are a "black" belt. That is what irked me. There are many excellent systems that wear no belt at all. There are others that are very casual about wearing the belt they have earned. I have no problem with that. It's the "white" that I have an issue with. A person who is advanced in their system doesn't need to wear a belt to prove it. They should be able to show it in how they move, how they act etc. To be an advanced student and wear a white belt to me is false humility. It's like an old person dressing like a teenager, and we have all seen them and how ridiculous they look. Well, to me, being a black belt level and putting on a white belt is the same thing, it is ridiculous.

 

[addicted2MA]

so its been a year now since i received my shodan. i remember my first class as a black belt, i felt as if i was starting all over again. in an instant i realized that being a black belt only means i have learned the basics, and now its time to refine them.

black belt is the true beginning of a martial artist journey.:wink2:

 

[wade]

Congratulations on getting your 1st Dan Brittany, I wish you the best in your training. It's going to be a long hard road but well worth it in the end. Have fun....................

 

[Yari]

I usally think of pre-backbelt as the grounding and principle learning. When receiving BB, you start to learn how to use it and be a part of yourself.

/Yari