Sigung Lee.

[arnisador]

I see Bruce Lee referred to as Sigung Lee or Sifu Lee on occasion. Did he use these titles when teaching?

 

[Baoquan]

I'm guilty of this...

I dont think he did, but don't quote me. I do it as a mark of respect, and a nod to the effect that, whether it was his intention or not, he has founded a style, or a more accurately a philosophy.

Maybe i shouldn't...but then, people are always calling me names I wouldn't personally use...

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by arnisador

I see Bruce Lee referred to as Sigung Lee or Sifu Lee on occasion. Did he use these titles when teaching?

Of course NOT.

Sifu is Cantonese for Instructor. (Si=teacher,fu=father)
Sigung is Cantonese for Instructor of your Instructor. (Si=teacher,gung=grandfather)

Most people who call Bruce Lee such titles are just trying to claim affiliation to Bruce Lee's JKD lineage.

I would be extremely wary of people who made such claim. ("Bruce Lee is my Sigung", Yeah right, and I am Bruce Lee reincarnation LOL )

Hmm... No offense to those who do it out of respect for the founder of JKD.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by KennethKu

No offense to those who do it out of respect for the founder of JKD.

This is what I'm wondering--is it being done as a posthumous sign of respect?

 

[KennethKu]

Needless to say it is impossible to generalize every one's motivation for bestowing such title onto him. However, IMHO Bruce lee would not be too ingratiated with such accolade. He regretted naming his concept of martial art , JeetKuneDo. SIFU, SIGUNG have the connotation of a school of lineage, which Bruce Lee did not envision JKD to be. JKD is BL's concept of MA, not BL's style nor school of MA.

Some people might feel compelled to address him as Sigong as a sign of respect. But it is not OFFICIAL. If you can ask his wife , Linda, you would be able to get a better answer as to how BL would receive it.lol

BL pioneered the concept of cross training in complimentary MA. Since most schools and practitioners cross train nowaday, you would think BL was the Sigung to all then. LOL

 

[sweeper]

I don't think calling someone a sifu implies any kind of system of rank or fighting, it's kinda like calling someone a professor or instructor. And I don't think anyone called him Sigung when he was alive but than again I wasn't alive back than so I wouldn't know

 

[Baoquan]

Dan Inosanto uses the title SiFu (as well as Guro - see www.inosanto.com). Given that Lee was Inosanto's teacher, isn't SiGung (applied to Lee) legitimate?

 

[Samurai]

I have heard Dan Inosanto refer to Bruce Lee as Sigung about one hundred times. His students also use that same title for Bruce Lee.

--Jeremy Bays

 

[TargetAlex]

Bruce Lee was the Sijo of JKD (Sijo=founder of the system, or 'grandfather' of the system)

Bruce lee's students may have referred to him as Sifu, but it is incorrect to refer to yourself as 'Sifu', because Sifu describes the relationship between the person to whom the title is attached and the person making the reference. You cannot say I am the father teacher without referencing with whom you share this 'father-like' relationship with.

Sigung is your teacher's teacher, students of Dan Inosanto may choose to refer to Bruce Lee as Sigung Lee, this would be correct. Paul Vunak's students, when using the term Sigung, would be referring to Dan Inosanto, as Paul Vunak is a student of Dan's, and they are a student of Paul's.

Guru is an Indian title that means "remover of darkness". It is used to refer to someone who brings light (enlightenment) into your life.

 

[TargetAlex]

First line in my above post should have been:
Bruce Lee was the Sijo of JKD (Sijo=founder of the system, or 'great-grandfather' of the system)

 

[IFAJKD]

My understanding is that Via Guru Inosanto, Bruce Lee Never used these titles and his students did not use them with him either. He went on to say that in fact he gets a chuckle out of hearing it.

 

[Angus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Inosanto's title "Guro" not "Guru"? As I understood it, "Guro" is filipino (well, I can't spell tegalig) for teacher or something similiar. As far as I know, Inosanto doesn't study any Indian martial arts.

How can Bruce Lee be a "Sijo" if JKD is not a style or system? He says himself that it is NOT a style. I never understood why it's construed as a style.

 

[KennethKu]

People used "Sijo" to claim lineage from Lee, whether there really is or isn't.

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by KennethKu

Yeah right, and I am Bruce Lee reincarnation LOL )

I knew someone who claimed that once...

He had it all worked out with suposed traditional oriental beliefs about how long the spirit takes to return and when his birthday was and stuff. Very funny.

 

[yin_yang75]

I have a link that explaiins it but when I was putting my site together I didn't list it. I'll dig it up if you want.

Basically, these names Sifu Guru and Sijung are family names. Father, grand father and great grandfather. It is a a carry over fron chinese arts wingchun hung gar etc. not Pilipine. Sijung also means founder, sifu means teacher and guro means your teachers teacher.

You could get a bunch of different answers because Cantonese is insane, there are so many dialects the can't under stand each other sometimes. Don't even start with the Mandrin stuff. I found over 10 ways to say wing chun dummy in chinese and I don't know which is right, I don't really think it matters.

If you trucked over to their forum they would have the answer right away........or they could discuss it for months.

 

[TargetAlex]

Yin_Yang75, Guru is not a Chinese term, it is Indian, and it means remover of darkness. Guro may be different, I cannot speak to that but I have seen Dan referred to as both Guru and Guro. Cantonese and Mandarin are two dialects of Chinese, and there are several other dialects of Chinese spoken, however there are not 'several dialects' of Cantonese. Some people in the southern US have different accents than those in the Northern US, but they are not different dialects, just accents.

 

[arnisador]

Guro is used in the Filipino arts.

 

[TargetAlex]

Arnisador, any idea if the Filipino arts' term 'guro' has the same meaning as the Indian term 'guru'?

Here is a summary of some Cantonese terms:

Sijo- great-grandfather, or founder of the system
Sifu- instructor, teacher
Simu- female instructor, female teacher
Sigung- your instructor's instructor
Sihing- your senior
Sidai- your junior
Sibok- instructor's senior
Sisook- instructor's junior
Toedai- student
Toesuen- student's student

 

[arnisador]

As I understand it--as it was explained to me--it's a fairly generic term for 'teacher'. In Modern Arnis the title has been more-or-less automatically awarded to each new black belt. We have people in the FMA-General forum who would know more about its usage.

 

[Cthulhu]

As I recall, there are numerous print sources stating that, at least in the Chinatown school, Bruce told the students to call him sifu during class. Outside, he was "just" Bruce.

As many have already stated, sigung means your teacher's teacher. So, only those who have been trained by people who had Lee as their sifu are using it correctly (in regards to JKD).

Cthulhu