Should instructors compete?

[headhunter]

What do you think guys, if you own your own TKD school do you think that competeing yourself would be good or bad and why do you think that?

 

[TigerWoman]

Owners of schools in TKD are 4th dan and up. Recommended BB through 3rd dan, the black belt is an instructor but still learning under a master instructor. Least that is the way I've learned that TKD is organized for the most part. I know some schools are started up as a 1st or 2nd dan but there should be a master involved, or it is a bit premature.

As a black belt, I have been in plenty of competitions with other 1st-3rd's. Its good for the colored belts to see that. I have only seen one 7th dan do poomse. And that was a demonstration. It was awesome to see that.
It shows the difference. It would be great to see this more often from our higher dans. But sometimes age, etc. gets in the way. I know for myself, I need 30 minutes of warmup exercise to get loose for a forms competition after we have sat for two hours judging colored belts. Usually we are allowed 5-10 minutes at most and its not enough. TW

 

[terryl965]

Well to answer your question USA TKD does not allow 4th and higher to compete, alot of small organization will let them. I know I enjoy competeing but the problem is with us old guys is not much zip to the step anymore it is more of a chest match or atleast what I have seen over the years.

 

[MichiganTKD]

No, instructors should not compete. Competition is for white belts through 3rd Dan. 4th Dan on up occupy a different place within Tae Kwon Do. They teach,organize, judge, referee, and provide guidance and leadership. Competition is not something they need to be doing. Kukkiwon/WTF rules are very explicit about this.

 

[Blindside]

What if they want to compete? I don't do TKD but I find watching my instructor and his peers compete is very enlightening. You know that "old age and guile" saying.... He is 45 and regularly takes firsts in all of the age groups he is eligible for (18+, 35+, 42+). Sparring him is brutal, he times you perfectly, hits like a mule, and never lets you know you hurt him.

I'd rather watch a chess match than a brawl anyday.

Lamont

 

[MichiganTKD]

If they want to compete, they should not test for 4th Dan.

 

[Andrew Green]

Does it matter?

Instructor and competitor are 2 different roles, if someone wants to do both they should be able to.

However given the perception of martial arts (athletics and youth mean less then knowledge) most won't, cause they might not win.

But the perception is that the "master" is the best fighter in the school, does the best forms, etc. Losing to a lower level student of another school would be seen by some as a disgrace. Which is silly, in what other sports are the coaches expected to be at a higher competitive level then the athletes? Often the coaches where never top competitors, but still can be top coaches.

But that is not the way it is in martial arts.

Coaches promote themself based on their personal competitive record, which says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about their ability to teach.

So if a coach / instructor wants to compete, but to expect them to is silly.

 

[searcher]

I am training in TKD, but I am a 5th Dan in Chito-ryu. I still compete and have a great time doing it. Everyone needs to be able to test themselves in a tense, competition environment.

What place are we supposed to occupy? Bench-warmer?

 

[Andrew Green]

What place are we supposed to occupy? Bench-warmer?

What's wrong with "Coach", isn't that an instructors job?

Every other sport seems to find something for a coach to do at a competition without competing, how is martial arts competition different?

 

[Aqua4ever]

Three of my instructors compete, they are incredible and it gives us something to look up to and work towards. I think having instructors compete is a good thing, they work just as hard as anyone else if not many times harder and deserve a chance to show that skill. If they do well, they set and example to work towards, and if they don't, they can show how to be a "good" loser and they will still be looked up to if they continue to work hard and set a high standard.
Aqua

 

[Andy Cap]

If they want to compete, they should not test for 4th Dan.

Well I seldom mention my rank online because I think it matters not, but in this situation it does. I was awarded a 4th dan in Tang Soo Do after many years of training. During many of those years I also studied Tae Kwon Do. Last year I was awarded my Kukkiwon 4th dan. I had earned my 1st dan - 3rd dan in Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan. I have been training for 27 years. I am 35 years old and too young to hang up my spurs.

In Tang Soo Do, we had the same attitude that 4th dans do not compete. Over the last few years this has changed, and masters are competing in their own category. It is awesome to see! The sparring is intense and calculated. The forms are inspiring, and the breaking would heat a house for a year.

Why should a 4th dan hang it up? Is it because it is unfair to the rest of the competitors? If that is the case, adn NOT testing is the answer, don't we end up with the same scenerio except the master has a 3rd dan? As for coaches and that noise - I never bought into it. When fighting there are only two people in the ring.

There is no obligation to compete, but it should be an option. As for the quote - well when you have been performing the same poomse/hyung for 6 years and you want to learn teh next one, you will test.

 

[Andy Cap]

What's wrong with "Coach", isn't that an instructors job?

Every other sport seems to find something for a coach to do at a competition without competing, how is martial arts competition different?

Because martial arts are not meant to be a sport. Martial arts are something you develop your entire life. They are not something you give up at a certain age because you don't win as many "games". Why have poomse and all the other traditions if it is only about the sport? In most sports people that can't do - coach. You are saying that if a person can do, but has a certain rank they cannot "play" the game. Not a solid arguement, and pretty selfish too.

 

[Andy Cap]

Three of my instructors compete, they are incredible and it gives us something to look up to and work towards. I think having instructors compete is a good thing, they work just as hard as anyone else if not many times harder and deserve a chance to show that skill. If they do well, they set and example to work towards, and if they don't, they can show how to be a "good" loser and they will still be looked up to if they continue to work hard and set a high standard.
Aqua

Exactly - well said

 

[Miles]

Should instructors compete-yes, if they want to.

There is no WTF/USA Taekwondo rule against competition at 4th dan or above. In fact, the USA Taekwondo has poomsae requirements for the various ranks. I competed until I turned 40 but could still do so....if I chose.

I still enjoy training with those who actively compete-these folks generally train harder than non-competitors.

Now, having said that, at some point, if the competitor no longer feels the desire to compete, he/she can turn to other aspects of the sport: referee, coach.

Miles

 

[terryl965]

Miles the Kukkiwon and WTF does mot allow Master which is 4th Dan and higher to compete, have they changed the rule and I'm unaware of this then I apologies ahead of time.

 

[Andrew Green]

Because martial arts are not meant to be a sport.

Umm... ok, so I take it in your view no one should compete? In which case the whole question is pointless...

Or is the argument here Ïnstructors should compete in the sport because it´s not really a sport¨?

 

[Andy Cap]

Umm... ok, so I take it in your view no one should compete? In which case the whole question is pointless...

Or is the argument here Ïnstructors should compete in the sport because it´s not really a sport¨?

No, read the entire post and not just one line - please. My point is that we compete and have tournaments to test our art and our ability to perform under stress. Competition is a training tool - it is not the end all. Some people compete for a living - I understand this, but those people do not do forms or bother with traditions. Therefore they are not martial artists, but profressional competitors or fighters. This is my opinion, and I do not consider it gospel, so please do not start flaming away if you have an issue. I will gladly discuss it rationally.

 

[Miles]

Terry,

No need to apologize!

Here's the Poomsae rule (BTW, the USTU Referee Manual is available online-this is taken from Page 113)

<<3. Official Poomsae
1. The only official Poomsae for all USTU-sanctioned Poomsae competition are the ones officially recognized by the Kukkiwon/WTF and required by the USTU.
2. The WTF presently recognizes and the USTU presently requires:
BLACK BELTS NON-BLACK BELTS
10th Dan None 10th Gup Basic Form 1
9th Dan Ilyo 9th Gup Basic Form 2
8th Dan Hansu 8th Gup Taegeuk or Palgwae I Jang
7th Dan Chonkwon 7th Gup Taegeuk or Palgwae 2 Jang
6th Dan Jitae 6th Gup Taegeuk or Palgwae 3 Jang
5th Dan Sipjin 5tb Gup Taegeuk or Palgwae 4 Jang
4th Dan Pyungwon 4th Gup Taegeuk or Palgwae 5 Jang
3rd Dan/Poom Taebaek 3rd Gup Taegeuk or Palgwae 6 Jang
2nd Dan/Poom Keumgang 2nd Gup Taegeuk or Palgwae 7 Jang
1st Dan/Poom Koryo 1st Gup Taegeuk or Palgwae 8 Jang>>

I competed at USTU Nationals in 2001 and 2002 as a 4th dan.

Miles

 

[Andrew Green]

No, read the entire post and not just one line - please. My point is that we compete and have tournaments to test our art and our ability to perform under stress. Competition is a training tool - it is not the end all. Some people compete for a living - I understand this, but those people do not do forms or bother with traditions. Therefore they are not martial artists, but profressional competitors or fighters. This is my opinion, and I do not consider it gospel, so please do not start flaming away if you have an issue. I will gladly discuss it rationally.

There are some very high level forms competitors that don't do much for fighting too.

Competition is sport, perhaps that is not all that you do and that is fine, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a sport. Both tag fighting and forms competition are sport. NHB fighting is sport, and that is essentially what a challenge match would be, or "the kung fu master fight" from the movies

Now, I am not going to disagree that a lot of what you do has nothing to do with sport, and that is fine. You're the one doing it

But, as soon as you go to a competition it becomes sport, even if just for the day. And this is NOT a bad thing, sport is good, sport is healthy, sport builds character.

In fact not so long ago organized sport was promoted based on providing the same benefits the martial arts marketing machine drills into peoples heads today. Of course Pro wrestling style sportsmanship can quickly get rid of any of that...

Martial arts competitions can showcase some of the worst sportsmanship out there, and this is a result of bad coaching from some, and next to no coaching (in the context of sports competition) from others.

 

[searcher]

So what is the real reason that instructors should not compete? For those of you who say no. Do you feel that we as instructors have an unfair advantage or???? I would like to know the reason behind your opinion.