Shotokan exams - kicking in place

[Orion Nebula]

Hi everyone,

I was looking through the testing guidelines for the various kyu levels in Shotokan (JKA), and I noticed that starting with the the 3rd kyu exam, you are tested on being able to do multiple kicks in place without setting your foot down between kicks. For example, for 3rd kyu you do two front snap kicks at different heights from front stance. For 2nd kyu, you do a front snap and then a side snap.

I'm wondering why this is tested so late. I don't find this to be particularly difficult unless I am very fatigued, so it makes me wonder why it doesn't show up earlier. Then again, it is also towards the end of the exam, so you would be very fatigued, so perhaps that is the point - to test your balance when you're completely wiped out.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Papageno]

I would answer a big yes to your last assumption. The kicks you mention are the very last part of the Kihon section and if you have performed 100 %, you will be wiped out (still having Kumite and Kata to go).

The kicks you mention are a balance test. I'm doing my 1st kyu exam Tuesday next week, so I'm doing these exercises every day since a month back. In my case its mae-geri, yoko-kekomi and ushiro-geri without putting my foot down. No problem when I'm fresh, but after going through all the other stuff it's hard to keep the balance.

Kicks are indeed included from 9th kyu grading, but only one at a time. That's difficult enough when you're new to this.

Well, these are my thoughts anyway. Please feel free to comment.

 

[Mitlov]

They may not have come up before not because they're especially hard, but because they're not core to the Shotokan curriculum. I think of multiple kicks without setting your foot down as something that was absorbed into Shotokan from TKD and/or American kickboxing. We never learned them when I did Shotokan, and I don't think they appear in any Shotokan kata. That didn't mean they're bad, just something that's a more recent addition to the style.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I cant speak for shotokan, but something to keep in mind is how you do the kicks. Being able to do a front kick than roundhouse kick is very different than doing a perfectly controlled frontkick, pause in chamber, and switch it over.

The other thing to keep in mind, again cant sprak for shotikan, is that generally things taught before black belt may not be considered 'late' in the curriculum.

 

[Danny T]

It was many years ago but when I was coming up through Shotokan in the 60s in my training we didn't do multiple kicks without putting the foot down. We did do a fake and kick elsewhere which the multiple kick exercise allows the development of.

 

[JR 137]

I cant speak for shotokan, but something to keep in mind is how you do the kicks. Being able to do a front kick than roundhouse kick is very different than doing a perfectly controlled frontkick, pause in chamber, and switch it over.

The other thing to keep in mind, again cant sprak for shotikan, is that generally things taught before black belt may not be considered 'late' in the curriculum.

It was many years ago but when I was coming up through Shotokan in the 60s in my training we didn't do multiple kicks without putting the foot down. We did do a fake and kick elsewhere which the multiple kick exercise allows the development of.

It’s most like a training exercise they’re being tested with rather than any actual combative application.

A lot of Kyokushin teachers like to have students jump over a bo (like a jump rope) X amount of times during testing. Same thing in principle - it’s a training exercise.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

It’s most like a training exercise they’re being tested with rather than any actual combative application.

A lot of Kyokushin teachers like to have students jump over a bo (like a jump rope) X amount of times during testing. Same thing in principle - it’s a training exercise.

Similar to having a bo rest on your lap during a horse stance. You won't generally hold the horse stance like that, but they want to see if you can do it

 

[Orion Nebula]

I would answer a big yes to your last assumption. The kicks you mention are the very last part of the Kihon section and if you have performed 100 %, you will be wiped out (still having Kumite and Kata to go).

The kicks you mention are a balance test. I'm doing my 1st kyu exam Tuesday next week, so I'm doing these exercises every day since a month back. In my case its mae-geri, yoko-kekomi and ushiro-geri without putting my foot down. No problem when I'm fresh, but after going through all the other stuff it's hard to keep the balance.

Kicks are indeed included from 9th kyu grading, but only one at a time. That's difficult enough when you're new to this.

Well, these are my thoughts anyway. Please feel free to comment.

Interesting! We actually do kata first, then kihon, and finish with kumite on our exams. But yes, it is the last thing done before kumite. We also do a control test at these kyus (perhaps not for 3rd kyu, but definitely 2nd and 1st) where you punch at a pencil without actually hitting it, and it's the very last part of the exam. Perhaps that's also related to performing well despite fatigue. This is good stuff to think about!

They may not have come up before not because they're especially hard, but because they're not core to the Shotokan curriculum. I think of multiple kicks without setting your foot down as something that was absorbed into Shotokan from TKD and/or American kickboxing. We never learned them when I did Shotokan, and I don't think they appear in any Shotokan kata. That didn't mean they're bad, just something that's a more recent addition to the style.

It was many years ago but when I was coming up through Shotokan in the 60s in my training we didn't do multiple kicks without putting the foot down. We did do a fake and kick elsewhere which the multiple kick exercise allows the development of.

We train this probably every other week. Sometimes we do just mae geri -> yoko keage, and sometimes we do a long set of mae geri -> mawashi geri -> yoko keage -> yoko kekomi -> ushiro geri, and other times it's something in between. Although as a beginner, I'm usually told to do my best if I can't do the longest set without dropping my foot. In my old style, we actually used to do it a lot, but usually we did mae geri -> yoko keage -> ushiro geri.

It’s most like a training exercise they’re being tested with rather than any actual combative application.

A lot of Kyokushin teachers like to have students jump over a bo (like a jump rope) X amount of times during testing. Same thing in principle - it’s a training exercise.

This seems like a good exercise not only to build balance but also to increase leg strength/stamina with kicks. I tend to fizzle out with kicks faster than I'd like to. Maybe doing these daily would help improve that. But that's an interesting perspective about it being a training exercise that you're being tested on. However, I'm inclined to think that it's not because you only do it once per leg.

 

[Mitlov]

It’s most like a training exercise they’re being tested with rather than any actual combative application.

Bill Superfoot Wallace was known for using multiple kicks with the lead leg without setting it down to great effect in full contact fights (competing in American kickboxing with a karate background). He used a mix of front leg roundhouse, front leg side kick, and front leg hook kicks.

The question mark kick (mid level front kick turning into a high roundhouse without setting it down) has a proven track record in various full contact competitions.

 

[Papageno]

Ah, yes! Punching the pencil whitout hitting it. For us it's included in 3rd kyu grading, but only there. Nothing of the sort in 2nd or 1st. No idea why. But in every exam it's Kihon first, then Kumite and last Kata. Interesting to know that it differs. I thought that all Shotokan exams were pretty much the same. Apparently not. I'm training JKA Shotokan.

As for the maegeri-kekomi-ushiro thing, it's not only the balance and not putting your foot down; it's also keeping your knee up before and after every kick. That's the hard part when you're exhausted.

 

[JR 137]

Bill Superfoot Wallace was known for using multiple kicks with the lead leg without setting it down to great effect in full contact fights (competing in American kickboxing with a karate background). He used a mix of front leg roundhouse, front leg side kick, and front leg hook kicks.

The question mark kick (mid level front kick turning into a high roundhouse without setting it down) has a proven track record in various full contact competitions.

Sure. But for 99.99999% of the population, it’s a training exercise rather than an actual combative move. He didn’t get the nickname “Superfoot” for nothing.

We do drills where we front kick-roundhouse kick-side kick-back kick without touching down. It trains balance, strength, agility, etc. A select few in our dojo can do a bunch of different kicks without touching down. Most people can’t.

 

[Mitlov]

Sure. But for 99.99999% of the population, it’s a training exercise rather than an actual combative move. He didn’t get the nickname “Superfoot” for nothing.

We do drills where we front kick-roundhouse kick-side kick-back kick without touching down. It trains balance, strength, agility, etc. A select few in our dojo can do a bunch of different kicks without touching down. Most people can’t.

Depends on the specific combo I think. If it's "hit with a hook, then hit with a roundhouse," yeah, that's not for 99.99999% of the population. But if these are drills to help someone throw a better "feint low roundhouse then hit high roundhouse" or "feint front kick then hit high roundhouse," I think a lot of people could pull it off with work.