Shortened forms for Juniors/kids?

[granfire]

Seems to be the newest change in the ITA ( sorry I have yet to resume training, never thought life could take so much out of me....)

I have worked with kids as young as 6 years old - actually even younger, who had no problem memorizing all of the forms (initially Hyongs, then a modification there of) even if they had a year in rank, most of them would never perform a sharp form, but all managed to learn it front to back.

Why would you want to dumb it down?

I mean, that is short changing the kids, finding - yet again - a lowest common denominator.

I am not knocking it, like I said I have not been back to see it in action, but I am scratching my head...seems nonsensical to me.

Who do you prepare your kids? (Forms only)

we are talking - mostly - 6-14, maybe 6 though 10 and 11 through 14, in that general zip code.

 

[rlobrecht]

The dojang I attend is mostly kids. The kids perform the same patterns (ITF) as adults. The biggest difference is the required technique. Our instructors are a little less concerned about things like hand position, etc. during a move, although they must be correct at the end of a move.

 

[StudentCarl]

As an assistant I spend a lot of my time with the under-8 crowd. Their coordination is less developed and their ability to mimic what they see is more limited, but I see them improve with practice. Keeping it fun and varied with frequent praise is the key IMO. I've seen 7 year olds who can handle multiple forms.

We do taegeuks. My master requires first 8 steps of Kibon 1 to test for yellow stripe and all of Kibon 1 for yellow belt. Older students and those who can perform the whole form test directly for yellow belt. Often the young kids test first for yellow stripe, then make yellow the next test. It's a way to reinforce progress for the kids who take longer to learn--and who generally have less attention span.

 

[ATC]

Not sure why they would do this. For us, kids under 8 must only know the form of their current belt. Once they reach 8 they are required to know all forms from ki-bon up to their belt.

I have one yellow belt boy that is 5 or 6 that cracks me up. He get mad when I do the move before him. If he gets stuck or pauses to long I will do the move for them to see, this little boy gets mad and says "I KNOW, DON'T TELL ME". All I can say is well if you know then why did you stop? He is Vietnamese and speaks very little English so when he says it, it sounds so funny.

 

[shesulsa]

You know, I was seriously thinking about doing this because some of my very young kids sometimes seem overwhelmed at how much information they need to process.

But I'm not Tae Kwon Do.

I don't think kids are challenged enough, frankly, but we have to take care in how much we expect.

Last I checked, though, TKD is not hurting for students nor retention. :idunno:

 

[granfire]

Well, I simply don't get it.

They only need to know the form for the current level.
The forms are by no means too intricate or difficult. You go up the mat, turn around and go back, Brown and red being a bit more involved, but that is considered 'advanced student' so you better pony up (IMHO)

Oh, and they added 2 month in rank (but with gradings) So you bore them for 6 month with half a form instead of work on a whole form in 4...

Who cooks up the changes in other organizations?

 

[shesulsa]

Ah, now ... see, every third color rank, we demonstrate all knowledge from white belt up for the next rank test, i.e. the test for green involves demonstrating short form, long form, kicking combinations and techniques from white, orange and yellow and the test for brown involves demonstrating all of these plus same for green, purple and blue. It's a lot.

 

[StudentCarl]

Ours are cumulative with rank regardless of age. If you make yellow belt at 6, you will have to perform 2 forms at next test. They do get better with practice.

 

[Gorilla]

KIds should have the same standards as adults. If they want to move up in rank.

 

[Twin Fist]

any school that does not require the student to demonstrate ALL techniques and katas on each test is giving away belts, IMO

tests are supposed to be hard.

but then, you HAVE to make the tests easy when you give BB's to 7 yr olds

 

[terryl965]

KIds should have the same standards as adults. If they want to move up in rank.

I can only echo this

 

[granfire]

Well, I don't mind if they don't demonstrate all forms and previous requirements at a grading, as someone sitting at the judges table, I want to go home some time...

But I am still baffled why the forms are being dumbed down for the kids...

Thanks guys...

 

[stkdh]

simple answer....money

if they stayed with the previous 10 belts then i wouldnt have though of the changes as another money makin scheme but adding 4 more levels and no extra requirements (from what i know) is another excuse to charge more testing fees before BB. ok rank skips are allowed for "talented" students but that is singling out the less capialbe if u ask me. ok not knowing the entire extent of the changes (but would like to) so cant really say that the only reason but it one of them.

 

[Gorilla]

any school that does not require the student to demonstrate ALL techniques and katas on each test is giving away belts, IMO

tests are supposed to be hard.

but then, you HAVE to make the tests easy when you give BB's to 7 yr olds

In most cases not all. And as it has been pointed out before they should be Poom belts. They should go back to giving Poom Belts to all kids under 15. Maybe this would settle some of the arguments.

I often refer to my Kids as Black Belts but in reality my son is a 2 Poom. My daughter turned 15 last year and is now a Dan Rank 1d Black Belt.

 

[shesulsa]

sorry - that was meant for the other thread.

I think ya gotta see what kids can do and raise expectations.

 

[dancingalone]

You know what? I think my position will be contrarian on this one. If these kids practice the forms as just a series of techniques strung together as a mnemonic device as I think they likely are, where's the harm in shortening the forms? Think of it as just another extended combination that the kids have to memorize and practice.

 

[granfire]

You know what? I think my position will be contrarian on this one. If these kids practice the forms as just a series of techniques strung together as a mnemonic device as I think they likely are, where's the harm in shortening the forms? Think of it as just another extended combination that the kids have to memorize and practice.

And we could just skip the trouble all together and hand them the Black Belt as they walk through the door.

The Organization has been around for over 20 years and the kids did well enough memorizing a whole form - trust me, they are not that hard...

Anyhow, from my own experience, each form comes a bit easier to learn than the one before. I mean, isn't learning - even through memorizing and cramming - part of why we do this?

I am not knocking your statement, I am just (still) trying to wrap my mind around this.

 

[dancingalone]

Anyhow, from my own experience, each form comes a bit easier to learn than the one before. I mean, isn't learning - even through memorizing and cramming - part of why we do this?

Depends on whom you're asking. I don't practice martial arts just for the sake of learning. I do it primarily to maintain and pass on skills useful in physical altercations. Similarly, I know my niece and nephew who are minors practice TKD primarily because for fun and exercise - I doubt it's just for the sake of learning something.

Perhaps the people who are changing things around in your group are doing it because they think easier forms for kids forward a particular goal they have. Perhaps they want to emphasize sparring and want to take less time on forms.

What was the rationale given to you for changing?

 

[granfire]

What was the rationale given to you for changing?

I am out of the loop but usually no reason is given.

 

[dancingalone]

I am out of the loop but usually no reason is given.

OK. Well, nothing says you have to follow suit if you don't agree, correct?