Shallow/deep breathing and timing

[Live True]

I thought it would be an interesting post to do a survey, but have to admit my ignorance on how to get one of those started...soooooooooo..

There are several posts out there about the variety of breathing techiques and exercises. I'm curious about the reasoning behind your method of breathing. It appears that there are differences in breathing among the various arts as well as within the various arts.

My style, Uechi, has some conflict regarding the proper way to breathe, particularly within the Sanchin kata, and many groups under Uechi practice Sanchin with different breathing techniques for reasons of health, safety, power, and philsophy. Now, I am not here to open THAT discussion again, I merely mention this as an example of the varied philosphies and techniques within one branch of Okinawan Karate.

I'm still very much a newbie, so I'll just start with two basic techniques and two basic timing ideas that I have heard/read about. I'm not really sure these can be divorced into two ideas, but I will try....also, any inaccuracies or misunderstandings, below, are all mine:
TECHINIQUES
Dragon Breathing=>deep, forceful breathing technique...timing reinforces dynamic tension...can add to the force of a blow, as the forceful out-breath is on any exertion of force/movement (believe that this still uses the in thru nose/out thru mouth technique)

Circular Breathing=>sharp yet shallow breathing technique...timing is meant to keep belly hard/soft (not too full and not too empty) to provide some resistance to strikes but still keep one from getting too winded...sharp and shallow breathing meant to force air in and out of lungs (uses in thru nose and out thru mouth technique)

TIMING
time with strikes/movements=>in-breath is during prepare or set up movement and out-breath is during exertion of attack/movement. Idea is that out-breath adds additional force to attack and in-breath steadies action/grounds.
do independently of strikes/movements=>breathing has a rhythm that is independent of movement and attack. idea is that this keeps individual breathing (kinda important) but does not telegraph an attack or movement by the type of breath being taken.

Again, very simplistic views, as that is where I am in the learning curve...but i'm interested in hearing other's take on these. And we all know that the most important thing...whatever technique..is to BREATHE...and now I will listen and learn...thank you!

 

[rabbit]

I wouldn't recommend trying to breathe deeply through the nose when you body doesn't need the air. It only serves as a distraction. Once you begin breathing more deeply becuase of the demands of the task you can inhale through the nose and exhaling as you are executing the technique.

I find it really hard to take a deep breath through the nose unless there is a real need to. I have practiced pranayama and unless there is a need to breathe deeply through the nose you are just going to meet with resistance.

I don't know if I am just imagining this but when you force a deep breath through the nose you nostril get smaller as you force the breath and as you exhale the nostril get bigger. I think this changes the shape of the nose at rest. I think this look really silly. and I am very self consious of this.

Also you got to take into consideration when you force a breath you might spit on someone or snot might come out your nose.


don't hold you breath but dont force it either.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

When you do not have to regulate breathing you are performing correct breathing. Artifical breathing is like producing Quicksilver it is not the actual goal but a means to refine it and produces real breathing which is breath that regulates on its own. It is said by the Alchemist Ko hung if you can breathe without letting a feather lift from your nose than you are performing real breathing.

 

[still learning]

Hello, You may want to check "expand-a-lung" a device that helps build stronger lung muscles.

It also helps you hold your breathe longer underwater for those who are spearfisherman/divers.

Two it helps you condition alot because it increase the muscles in lungs to get more air.

Sleep apea...it has help my sleeping/breathing at night....rarely wake up feeling tired. Increase the lungs to get more air because the muscles in the lungs gets stronger.

See Expand-a-lung and reseach this device (ebay is $29.00 w/shipping).

It works...we do breathing excercises and the expand-a-lung does the same thing only faster, better, more effective....

Try it you will be supprise how much it will help you in your training/sparring/condition....

Aloha, (it works!) ....more air...flows thru...

 

[rabbit]

It is said by the Alchemist Ko hung if you can breathe without letting a feather lift from your nose than you are performing real breathing.

Could you explain a little more what this means? I unserstand what you are saying I just can't visualize it.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Placing a feather under your nose means the breath is long slender deep and is so soft that it does not blow the feather away. To have your breath achieve this state requires real breathing. When you have finished regulating the breath thru artifical means than real breathing emerges.
Sometimes it is refered as no breath because the breath is so slow and calm it is as if you are not breathing at all.

 

[Live True]

Thank you all for your replies. So the lean at this point is toward a shallow type of breathing....but what about timing? With the force/strike/exertion or independent of movement?

Again, thanks for your thoughts on this, it is helping me to sort out my own!

 

[rabbit]

You might want to become aware of how your breathing already is before you try to change it. Then try out other things. After you've try all the different ways I would stick with the one that helps out the most.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Breathe naturally.

If you tie any sort of special breathing to fighting or sparing it will not be long until your opponent figures out that you can only through a punch when you exhale so he will attack after you exhale or you can only counter on inhale or you need shallow breathing for this or deep breathing for that.

My last Xingyi sifu pointed that out during wu xing drills. His exact words
"If you exhale for power I will attack you after you exhale"

 

[still learning]

Hello, I agree with "Xue Sheng" ....natural breathe...cause in a fight...you will not have time to think about how to breathe ....unless you practice that way ALL the time.

You will fight how you train most times except for the adrenline/fear factor hits you?

Aloha ( natural way...) Air so important....water too!

 

[Live True]

Thank you all; that's got me on a good track. At this stage in my training, I am working on basics (not falling down, remembering TO breathe, etc....), but I figure the mental work is almost as important as the physical.

Thank you for the advice!