Self-Defense

[SammyB57]

Has anyone ever had to use TKD in self-defense? I'm looking for personal experiences.... so if anyone has one they would like to share, I'd like to hear it. (Tired of hearing about how TKD is useless for SD without having any proof).

 

[Zepp]

Here's my problem with this question: It assumes that a martial art is defined by the techniques you use. I would like to assert here and now that no martial art is defined by the number or kinds of techniques, but by it's learning methodology and strategic focus with regard to training.

Here's how I would have phrased the question: "Have you ever used the skills taught in Tae Kwon Do to protect yourself?"

If you've ever hit an attacker with a part of your hand, or arm, or foot, or leg, the answer is yes. If you've ever prevented an attacker from hitting his target with any of the body parts listed above, the answer is yes. If you've succesfully pulled away when an attacker has grabbed you, the answer is yes. If you've ever used your sense of distance and timing to avoid someone until either the authorities arrived, or until you were able to escape, the answer is yes. Need I go on with this list?

Personally, before my training in Tae Kwon Do, I have used the above-mentioned skills to protect myself. But since then, I've been able to avoid or diffuse every situation I've been in that might have turned violent. If there's a skill that should be taught more often in TKD, that one's at the top of the list, but that could be said for most martial arts.

 

[Miles]

I agree with Zepp about the difficulty in defining what is TKD or what it and other arts teach (awareness, distance control, etc.). But, from personal experience, I also understand the difficulty in phrasing questions.....

Having said that, I've only once had to use TKD in a physical manner-during a freshman high school gym class playing basketball. I stole the basketball from another player who got upset and came after me. He started to chase me and did not notice I stopped suddenly and backfisted him in the nose. He got a bloody nose and suspended from gym class. Funny thing is he became one of my best friends in high school...

Miles

 

[FearlessFreep]

My 10 year old daughter blocked being hit by a stick from the neighborhood bully (down block). Since then, he seems to have a lot more respect for her. Knowing that my kids are into TKD has caused him to back of from being so beligerent to them.

 

[SammyB57]

By using TKD I mean....
In an actual physical confrontation, using a technique aquired in a TKD class.

This would be an example of a TKD technique - Snap Kick, Chop, Knifehand, Backfist, Roundhouse, axe kick, etc. Those are the techniques predominant in TKD from what I've seen. You aren't going to see an axe kick in Judo or boxing, so it's not THAT hard to define what techniques are TKD and what aren't.

 

[Spookey]

Dear All,

I am a security consultant for private business and civilians. Overseeing event management and personal protective services, I have more than once incounter "hands on" situations.

The way these senarios generally work out it is hard to say, well I did this and then that, ect.

However, I can say that for me at least, that the techniques of TKD as I have learned them have worked for me in majority!

TAEKWON!
Spookey

 

[Cruentus]

Has anyone ever had to use TKD in self-defense? I'm looking for personal experiences.... so if anyone has one they would like to share, I'd like to hear it. (Tired of hearing about how TKD is useless for SD without having any proof).

Whether your art is good for self-defense depends largely on how you train rather then what you train in. I did TKD growing up. In the school I was at we did a lot of sparring; medium to full contact. We did a lot of 1-step, 2-step, 3-step, and 'free' sparring. The step sparring started with one partner throwing a simple, telegraphed revese punch, and another defending. But as one progressed, the step sparring involved one person throwing an untelegraphed technique of any kind, and the other person defending.

Plus, yes there are a lot of TKD 'techniques' that are barely useable, like spin kicks and high flying kicks. However, there are a lot of TKD techniques that work well, such as kicks waist level and below, the different hand strikes, takedowns, and throws, and some very basic ground techniques.

Now, TKD gets ripped on all the time, and this is largely due to "how" the majority of the schools I see train rather then the art. Many of the schools I see focus on dead patterns with no form application, their techniques are geared for show-man-ship, their step sparring is not rooted in reality, they are only allowed to spar at a certian rank, and the rules that they use are geared towards sport rather then self-defense. If one trains this way then it is very difficult for them to use their art for self-defense.

However, not all schools train that way. There are many that train live, and a bit for reality. I do not currently practice TKD, as my other styles and tactical training keeps me hella busy. However, I wouldn't take back what I learned in my TKD school for anything.

Now, to answer your question, yes. I know many people who have used TKD in real life self-defense situations, myself included. I know people who have used spin kicks even (something I wouldn't recommend). Most of the kicks that people used, however, were waist level and below, and they were usually followed by a flurry of hand strikes and a leg sweep or throw.

For these people, what was in muscle memory all just came out in the context of the fight.

Paul

 

[Zepp]

...so it's not THAT hard to define what techniques are TKD and what aren't.

Sammy, that's my point. There's no such thing as a "TKD technique." No single martial art teaches a technique that can't be found in at least one other martial art.

My problem isn't really with how you're phrasing questions, but with how so many martial artists perceive martial arts. Let's look at the list of examples you gave of "TKD techniques."

This would be an example of a TKD technique - Snap Kick, Chop, Knifehand, Backfist, Roundhouse, axe kick, etc. Those are the techniques predominant in TKD from what I've seen.

So why didn't you list punching? I don't know about everyone else here, but punching was the first thing we covered on my first day of TKD class. I do know for a fact that everyone on this board who didn't learn TKD at a McDojang has practiced punching in their TKD class. Why didn't a punch make the list?

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm picking on you Sammy, I'm not trying to. But you do see what I'm trying to say, right?

 

[Corporal Hicks]

Maybe it depends on how much you want to become efficient in self defence, tae kwon do teaches the basics and demands you do this and this is self defence, if you want to become more smooth and have a greater advantage over your opponent and learn to be flexible then I sujest that you cross train with another art that focuses on another range! the only real major problem with TKD is that if you hit the ground, and find yourself pinned or unable to get to your feet for whatever reason without other art training your pretty much going 2 be b*ggered!

 

[Chronuss]

Sammy, that's my point. There's no such thing as a "TKD technique." No single martial art teaches a technique that can't be found in at least one other martial art.

it depends what you would label a "technique." would you define a techinique by a series that is comprised of predetermined movements or a single basic, e.g.: front kick, back knuckle, sword hand, etc. I never learned a self defense techinique while studying TKD but I did learn basics such as the aforementioned movements.

 

[FearlessFreep]

I had a talk about this with my sabomnim last night, actually. He seems to have the following approach

1) For Sparring, we teach/use olympic-rules TKD
2) For forms, we use Taegeuk poomseas
3) For self-defense, we use whatever works

He basically teaches that their are four 'bubbles' of range to work within: foot/leg range, hand range, elbow/knee range, and grappling. Right now my own level of experience has me mostly working at the hand range and the elbow range but we have worked at the foot range. The foot range and the hand range especially incorporate a lot of TKD technique and philosophy (most important to me is the idea of getting the aggressor before he gets to you), as we get in closer, we're learning stuff that draws more from Hapkido (and as we progress we will draw more from Judo). As he sorta said "don't let him get in if you can avoid it, he may have a knife..." but also "you may wake up someday with someone sitting on you with their hands at yor throat.

So it's heavily TKD based, with techniques borrowed from other disciplnes to fill in the holes where TKD is not designed to meet. I'm not well enough versed in the various arts, though, to really know "this is a TKD kick", "that is a Hapkido joint move" or "this is just something that works"

*Most* importantly, though, we learn to never do something unless the danger of not doing something is greater. Avoidance, de-esculation, etc... are your first line of defense.

 

[Flamebearer]

"TKD techniques" also depends on what your specific school teaches. For example, I learn wrist and arm locks and controls. In a situation where I wanted to gain respect but not break bones, I would use a wrist lock. (I also wouldn't have to pay hospital bills, etc.

Also what you use depends on what you're comfortable with and what you've trained to become instinctive.

-Flamebearer

 

[Zepp]

it depends what you would label a "technique." would you define a techinique by a series that is comprised of predetermined movements or a single basic, e.g.: front kick, back knuckle, sword hand, etc. I never learned a self defense techinique while studying TKD but I did learn basics such as the aforementioned movements.

::Sigh:: Ok, fine. Those of us not in Kenpo generally define what you've described as "single basics" as techniques. In my TKD experience, putting those basics into a series that's useable in self-defense is up to the individual. That's the kind of thing we start working on in three-step and one-step drills.

 

[dmdfromhamilton]

I think taekwondo could be a very good martial art for self defense for two reasons,.

1) It trains the legs i find that for myself the better i can kick high the better i can kick low(and sometimes high kicks can be useful when set up properly

2) Alot of speed and balance are developed to be used for high kicks which can be useful for all other aspects of martial arts as well

The only thing i see taekwondo missing is grappling but many tkd schools i hear now incorporate them usually from hapkkido and/or judo

However i think it is up to the individual to fight pactically on the street and not like they are in a point sparring match (this goes for every art as most schools only teach point sparring with kicks having to be above the waist, no face contact etc)

And also in the nonkenpo school i go to we call punches, kicks etc basics not techniques as they usually refer to a joint lock takedown etc.

 

[Corporal Hicks]

I think taekwondo could be a very good martial art for self defense for two reasons,.

1) It trains the legs i find that for myself the better i can kick high the better i can kick low(and sometimes high kicks can be useful when set up properly

2) Alot of speed and balance are developed to be used for high kicks which can be useful for all other aspects of martial arts as well

The only thing i see taekwondo missing is grappling but many tkd schools i hear now incorporate them usually from hapkkido and/or judo

However i think it is up to the individual to fight pactically on the street and not like they are in a point sparring match (this goes for every art as most schools only teach point sparring with kicks having to be above the waist, no face contact etc)

.

Maybe! But you cannot apply alot of self defence from TKD into a lot of reality street fights! I mean in context, your on a slippery path or in a crowded room your not going 2 be able to kick very well, but if your taught arm locks and joint locks then hey WHY NOT!

 

[dmdfromhamilton]

I mean in context, your on a slippery path or in a crowded room your not going 2 be able to kick very well, but if your taught arm locks and joint locks then hey WHY NOT!

As i said it is up to the individual to have the smarts to not kick when the can't. And i disagree about the crowed room you can still kick low quite well i have.

 

[Miles]

Maybe! But you cannot apply alot of self defence from TKD into a lot of reality street fights! I mean in context, your on a slippery path or in a crowded room your not going 2 be able to kick very well, but if your taught arm locks and joint locks then hey WHY NOT!

Taekwondo includes arms bars, joint locks, sweeps and throws. These are applications of the basics: blocks, strikes, stances, footwork, and kicks. I teach these applications at first dan....when someone essentially has the basics down. Take a look at the Tang Soo Do thread on applications of Soo Gi.

Miles

 

[shane23ss]

it depends what you would label a "technique." would you define a techinique by a series that is comprised of predetermined movements or a single basic, e.g.: front kick, back knuckle, sword hand, etc. I never learned a self defense techinique while studying TKD but I did learn basics such as the aforementioned movements.

What Chronuss is trying to get across here is that different systems define "technique" differently. What has been called a "technique" here is defined as a movement or "single basic" in Kenpo.

 

[Han-Mi]

Though Ive never gone beyond the basic joint locks I have learned from other styles, my good friend and student had a run in with a less than friendly guy that was bigger than him... 1 side kick and the guy was on the ground.
TKD is definately good for SD because of our ability to stay outside of the average attacker's range and still defend ourselves. I personally try not to kick or strike until I know the person cannot be easily dealt with by a restraining lock, makes for less law suits in this, the sue happy state of California. I do belive that every one of my situations could have been just as easily resolved with a swift kick.

 

[Corporal Hicks]

As i said it is up to the individual to have the smarts to not kick when the can't. And i disagree about the crowed room you can still kick low quite well i have.

Mmm, when? surely it would have been to punch or use something other than kicks, I would have thought I would have been easy for somebody to lock or catch a leg in a crowded place since there is little room to swing?

Taekwondo includes arms bars, joint locks, sweeps and throws. These are applications of the basics: blocks, strikes, stances, footwork, and kicks. I teach these applications at first dan....when someone essentially has the basics down. Take a look at the Tang Soo Do thread on applications of Soo Gi.

Miles

Mmmmm, from this forum I've heard that TKD does incorporate joint locks, sweeps and throws but all the time I've been doing TKD I've never ever done them where I train. Could I be with a bad instructor? or is it his way of teaching that I'm just doing?

I must keep getting the wrong impression! Sorry guys