Schools Offer Kids "Paychecks"

[MJS]

I came across this article and thought it was pretty interesting.

WASHINGTON - Friday is payday at KIPP DC: KEY Academy, and some sixth-grade girls gather at the makeshift school store trying to decide how to spend their hard-earned money.
They received paychecks for behaving well, doing their homework or making academic gains. The money is pretend. But it can be used at the store for genuine items such as pens capped with fluffy feathers, pencil cases shaped like animals and colorful erasers.
Schools, under pressure to boost student achievement, are offering incentives — field trips and cash, for example — to motivate students.

I"m kind of split on this one. On one hand, I don't think that kids should have to be bribed into doing something. The fact that without a good education, the chances of getting a good, solid job are slim, should be enough incentive to do well, I can understand the incentive plan. Many companies offer incentive programs and in a way it does boost the moral quite a bit. It seems like its working and its making the kids happy though.

Thoughts?

 

[CuongNhuka]

We live in a material based society. Most of everything you do is with the overbearing mentality of 'make money'. And in school, what are you rewarded with? Good grades. But, really, what is a grade? A mark. A mark outside yourself. A mark who's value you cann't return for may years, if ever. Let's be honest, grades only start to affect you in high school, and that is only to the extent of 'what college am I getting into'. So, really, this is a great idea.

People like to argue with alot of polices on the basis of 'it wont work because we live in a society that is at it's base greedy'. So, how do we reward students? With a mark. Makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

 

[terryl965]

Well I say great they are teaching these young people how to earn a living, I like the program.

 

[CoryKS]

It's an eternal problem - how to get individuals to pay the cost now for the things that will benefit them later. Someone really ought to make a fable out of that.

I don't have a problem with incentive programs. In my kid's school they can earn points toward an ice cream party at the end of the year, or the opportunity to sit at the teacher's desk for a day (for some reason, that's a big deal). I would prefer that to an actually monetary payout, though.

 

[MBuzzy]

Great idea! Although, specifically training kids how to manage money and the value of work would be a good idea too. I really don't see it as a reward, but preparation for the real world.

 

[morph4me]

There's the carrot, is there a stick for those kids than don't respond to the carrot?

 

[Twin Fist]

i like the idea of it, but it does leave a bad taste in one's mouth.....

 

[MA-Caver]

I'm split on this idea as well. On one hand I recall my dad giving me $10.00 for every "A" that I produced on my report card. But on the other hand I do see the element of bribery to do well in school.
The happiest students are the best students. The ones who diligently study hard are the ones who WANT to learn. I think this should be the goal of the school systems... to encourage kids to WANT to learn more. This is also should be encouraged at home as well.
The ones who go to school as a tedious day to day process (sound familiar to those working people??) aren't there because they WANT to be... they're there because they HAVE to be.
With my friends children, watching them grow up and enter their first years of school, you can see the excitement and enthusiasm for getting there. Mom just couldn't load them into the car fast enough. But somewhere down the line, a few years later it's like..."awww mom, I don't wanna go" , or they just do so grudgingly taking their time getting dressed, eating breakfast, finding their school work, going to the car, running back to the house to get something they forgot, dog tired because they were up the night before trying to finish a homework assignment at the last minute when it was handed out 1 week earlier... they may still bring home a good grade but it's now and again instead of every time.
Would they the (semi-slackers) be more motivated if they were being PAID to go? Are WE any less motivated (enthusiastically) just because we're being PAID to go to work?

I got burnt out on school by the 9th grade. It wasn't challenging anymore, I was having to learn stuff that I already understood or was being taught in a manner that I couldn't understand although my reading level was at Freshman College by that time some of my classmates were still reading Dr. Seuss.
Ok, ok an exaggeration but ya'll know what I meant when you read that line.

Will getting a paycheck actually help? The article says it does but what about overall? And what is the message being taught here? The underlying message? "What's in it for me??" It used to be "a good education which will help you later in life"... but now it's like... "yah yah, but I want something N-O-W!"
The time of delayed gratification has gotten a lot shorter over the years.

 

[CuongNhuka]

I'm on the other hand I do see the element of bribery to do well in school.

That's one way you could look at it. But, like the both of us said, the buisness world gives you money to work. They give you a little more if you do well. Yet, in school, there is no reward that you can see. So, the two are almost opposites. Don't think of it as bribery, think of it as getting paid to do your job. Welcome to the buisness world, right?

But, you are also right that people should do well, simply because it's the right thing to do, but how often do people really do that? How many people do you know that wouldn't help an old lady across the street if they could expect nothing in return? Even the boyscouts get badges, which equal bragging rights.

 

[arnisador]

I agree that schools shouldn't have to do this. The question is, given that they face the problems they face, is it OK that they do this?

 

[CuongNhuka]

I agree that schools shouldn't have to do this. The question is, given that they face the problems they face, is it OK that they do this?

Would you like to work a 35 hour week, with work you have to do home that could make it a 60 hour week, with no pay? Lets be honest, school is indoctrination to the buisness world, and little more after 7th grade. You to work, take orders, complete a task, to get along, to deal with people from very differnit cultures and economic backrounds, and learn to keep a schedule/maintain a schedule. These are things you use in a buisness setting. Knowing how many valence electrons Cromium has is pretty much useless uless you're a chemist. I know quite a few people who agree with me (including several teachers).

So, really, the question is, how do you define your wages? (ie, $10 for an A, or $20?)

 

[Kacey]

Well, the school I teach at has a similar, if less extensive, program. Students who are caught doing something right are given an "Eagle Buck" (the school mascot is an eagle), and what they do right could be a wide variety of things - behaved well for a sub, turned in all homework over a certain time frame, on time to class, helped someone in the hallway, whatever - and every other Tuesday after school the Eagle Buck store is open, and sells everything from mechanical pencils to school backpacks.

There are good and bad parts to this. Some kids - especially the older ones - thing the whole program is hokey, and won't participate; they give their "bucks" to younger students. Some kids are disorganized and lose them. Some teachers forget to use them, and use is not consistent throughout the school (that's being worked on for next year). Overall, however, the good kids - the ones who would work anyway - are getting rewarded (which is good; they were getting ignored before) - but the program does not work to motivate many, if any, of the others; in that sense, it's a total flop.

 

[MJS]

Good points, and again, I'll say that the program sounds like its having a positive effect. Now, to play devils advocate for a moment. Regarding the work/school comparison. We go to work. We provide a service. If you're a firefighter, you're getting paid to put out fires, respond to medicals, car accidents, etc. If you're a cook, you're providing a service...you're cooking for someone. You're a landscaper...you're maintaining someones lawn for them. You're a teacher...you're teaching kids and giving them an education. You're a student...what service are you providing?

So, while the 2 seem similar, they're still different.

 

[CuongNhuka]

You're a student...what service are you providing?

So, while the 2 seem similar, they're still different.

Actually, students are still providing a service. It's just not one with an immediate return. The return is the hope that one day, those kids will be a functioning member of society, who can go on to provide for the society. Were is the best place to acomplish this? School, where you are indoctrinated into society.

I know, it must be rather hypocritcal of me to say "people want an immediate reutrn" in defending the idea, and then later say that the service that students provide is more like a... a long term investment. However, the idea's are not really all that exclusive. Some investments need time to acuire value (like a bank acount/job), others need an instant return (buying a stock/a job [depending on the job you have, your investment of labor may take a while to build value]). How do these apply to this situation? Simple. Let's say you buy 100 shares of some company. You are getting an almost instant return (if the investment is good), but the employees must put in time and labor to provide that return. So, the return for one investment can go in either a long term investment (a childs education), or a short turn one (getting a reward to good grades).

Well, I'll be honest it's getting late where I am, so, I'll get back to you tomorrow with a fresh brain and more info. nighty night.

 

[morph4me]

Actually, students are still providing a service. It's just not one with an immediate return. The return is the hope that one day, those kids will be a functioning member of society, who can go on to provide for the society. Were is the best place to acomplish this? School, where you are indoctrinated into society.

I know, it must be rather hypocritcal of me to say "people want an immediate reutrn" in defending the idea, and then later say that the service that students provide is more like a... a long term investment. However, the idea's are not really all that exclusive. Some investments need time to acuire value (like a bank acount/job), others need an instant return (buying a stock/a job [depending on the job you have, your investment of labor may take a while to build value]). How do these apply to this situation? Simple. Let's say you buy 100 shares of some company. You are getting an almost instant return (if the investment is good), but the employees must put in time and labor to provide that return. So, the return for one investment can go in either a long term investment (a childs education), or a short turn one (getting a reward to good grades).

Well, I'll be honest it's getting late where I am, so, I'll get back to you tomorrow with a fresh brain and more info. nighty night.

Actually students are not providing a service, they are providing a potential work force, the key word here being potential. It's more like an unpaid internship than an investment, if it works out , you get a job, if it doesn't you look for something else. The long term investment is the school taxes that pay the teachers and maintain the schools an programs.

This is more of an incentive program, which will work, if the students are driven by potential rewards, if they are driven by avoiding consequences it's a waste of time.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I am all for it. I do something similar with my children for every report card that they bring back if the grades are good then off to the book store we go and they can pick out some books or something else that they want. (so far it has worked like a charm all A's)

Now my son's last teacher has had a store like the one MJS proposed above and it really helps the children in his class. His was devoted to reading and the more you read and comprehended. (he had a test for each book) Then the more money you received and could use in the store. My son decided that he would use this as a test to see how much money he could earn throughout the year and not spend and try to set a class room record. So he was motivated to read (which he did already in great amounts) and set a record. Motivation plus a goal, what a wonderful thing! Anyways he set the all time record for the class and all because of a little store. Pretty cool!

 

[MJS]

Actually, students are still providing a service. It's just not one with an immediate return. The return is the hope that one day, those kids will be a functioning member of society, who can go on to provide for the society. Were is the best place to acomplish this? School, where you are indoctrinated into society.

I know, it must be rather hypocritcal of me to say "people want an immediate reutrn" in defending the idea, and then later say that the service that students provide is more like a... a long term investment. However, the idea's are not really all that exclusive. Some investments need time to acuire value (like a bank acount/job), others need an instant return (buying a stock/a job [depending on the job you have, your investment of labor may take a while to build value]). How do these apply to this situation? Simple. Let's say you buy 100 shares of some company. You are getting an almost instant return (if the investment is good), but the employees must put in time and labor to provide that return. So, the return for one investment can go in either a long term investment (a childs education), or a short turn one (getting a reward to good grades).

Well, I'll be honest it's getting late where I am, so, I'll get back to you tomorrow with a fresh brain and more info. nighty night.

I see your point, but I have to agree with morph on this one. When you work, you're providing an immediate service. I don't see any service that kids are providing when they're in school.

Hey, like I said in my OP, part of me thinks its a good idea, and the other part is still curious. Incentives are nice. Some places give them, some don't. But, people still need to do what they have to depsite not getting one. If you mess up in school, you'll be there longer than everyone else in your class, and if you quit, you may end up working for min. wage. If you don't do well at work...well, you'll get fired. Again, the extra perks are nice, but it shouldn't be something thats expected.

 

[Empty Hands]

If they are being bribed to finish their homework and sit quietly, then they are still finishing their homework and sitting quietly. What is the problem again?

I think it is instructive to take a look at the wide world of animal training. The method most widely used is positive reinforcement (i.e. bribery). Although people don't like to think this way, I have often found that what works for Fido behavior wise works pretty well for Susie and Timmy.

 

[MJS]

If they are being bribed to finish their homework and sit quietly, then they are still finishing their homework and sitting quietly. What is the problem again?

Why do they have to be bribed again? Why can't the idea of a good education and a job be enough? Nobody bribed or paid me off when I was in school. I either did good or I didn't. If I didn't, I knew I wasn't going anywhere...if I did, I knew I had a diploma under my belt.

I think it is instructive to take a look at the wide world of animal training. The method most widely used is positive reinforcement (i.e. bribery). Although people don't like to think this way, I have often found that what works for Fido behavior wise works pretty well for Susie and Timmy.

I worked with a few trainers for my dog. He is very food motivated, so yes, in the beginning, for every good thing he did, he got a treat. After a while, he got the treat every 4th time, then every 10th time he did something, then eventually he got a rub on the back and a "Good Boy!"

So...is the "paycheck" going to continue or will it stop at some point?

 

[Empty Hands]

Why can't the idea of a good education and a job be enough?

Quite simply, most people are lazy. I include myself in this, despite living a successful life with significant educational and job achievements. Most people will only do what they have to do to get what they want. It would be nice if everyone had the discipline to do what they are "supposed" to do for no reward, but that just isn't reality. If bribery is what works, then bribery is what should be used. The alternative is for them to NOT do their homework (or whatever) and we as adults know what will benefit them in the long run while most kids just aren't that good at long term thinking.

So...is the "paycheck" going to continue or will it stop at some point?

Well, they will leave school at some point...at which time, they will get jobs with actual paychecks.