Russian judo more about strength?

[Formosa Neijia]

I ask this question because I've read in various places that Russian and European judo is supposed to be more about power than technique. I often hear that the Japanese style is more ...well...fluid. Maybe that's a subtle put down to other styles.

Anyway, I got a hold of Igor Yakimov's Secrets of Russian Judo and it's got some of the smartest moves I've ever seen. And almost all of the details that make it different from standard judo were about using MORE technique and LESS power.

So is this a myth? Is there a bit of a power struggle going on?

Here's a clip of Igor: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FL_YpFNKpnE

 

[theletch1]

Couldn't say about the difference between the Russian and Japanese versions of Judo. I DO know that I've heard that judo as an umbrella art is more about upper body strength to effect a throw than a very similar throw would be in aikido. As I've seen tons of differences from one sub-style of aikido to another I'd not have too much trouble believing that there would be differences in styles of judo.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I ask this question because I've read in various places that Russian and European judo is supposed to be more about power than technique. I often hear that the Japanese style is more ...well...fluid. Maybe that's a subtle put down to other styles.

Could this be because many of the top competitors where extremely strong men that seemed to use brute strength rather than technique to win

 

[Formosa Neijia]

Could this be because many of the top competitors where extremely strong men that seemed to use brute strength rather than technique to win

The comment that I heard was that the Russians and Europeans favored moves like the double leg that were done at distance from the person -- so no grabbing and kuzushi was involved. The Japanese apparently frown on those "power" moves and I heard that they recently got the rules changed to disallow them.

But if the whole style is being painted with that brush, then it seems a bit inaccurate maybe?

 

[RedRonin38]

Couldn't say about the difference between the Russian and Japanese versions of Judo. I DO know that I've heard that judo as an umbrella art is more about upper body strength to effect a throw than a very similar throw would be in aikido. As I've seen tons of differences from one sub-style of aikido to another I'd not have too much trouble believing that there would be differences in styles of judo.

Judo can be played different ways. Younger people, especially males, tend to rely more on strength but they still have to have technique to make things work. Couldn't say much about Russian Judo, other than from what I've seen is variation of standard Judo technique, which probably developed out of need for competative purposes.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Differances in technique, differances in body styles and personalities is what this is about. Russian judo is very strong and technical!

 

[jlhummel]

no matter what style one of the main ways to score in a judo match is by usuing a recognizable technique to score a point. So technique is usually important. I think the strength difference would be in setting up the technique more than muscling through a technique.

 

[Aaron Fields]

I lived and practiced in the Eastern Block for a long while. I was working with the national Sambo and Judo teams. The whole, "brute strength" thing is a myth, it is no more or less based around strength than the Japanese approach. In fact it is often argued that Korean players use a lot of muscle, which again I have found to not be true. The approach of the Russians etc require the application of ju, like anything else. Most folks consider my style to be Russian. Nevertheless I have the reputation as being very technical.

It also rubs me when folks say the Russian style is "unorthodox" in grips, angles, etc. Unorthodox to who? Sambo greatly influenced Russian Judo, Sambo pulls a lot from the Central Asian and European wrestling systems.

Aaron Fields
Seattle Jujutsu Club,
Sea-Town Sombo

www.seattle-jujutsu.org

 

[punisher73]

I think it depends on how you are training. I think that most people at a lower skill, do more "jacket wrestling" than what judo was meant to be. Here is an example of one of Judo's best ever

I think if that is what you are comparing other schools of judo to. I think all of them are going to look like muscling.

Here is an example of "russian judo"

In this clip you see a person of high level skill, and I don't see a reliance of strength.

Finally, here is a clip where you see two judokas going at it, where strength is a big factor in the technique

 

[tshadowchaser]

nice examples thanks for finding them and sharing

 

[Formosa Neijia]

It also rubs me when folks say the Russian style is "unorthodox" in grips, angles, etc. Unorthodox to who? Sambo greatly influenced Russian Judo, Sambo pulls a lot from the Central Asian and European wrestling systems.

That got me too. I kept asking myself how they could possibly be gripping "wrong." When I saw their grips, I couldn't help but think what's the big deal? Russian judo grips, in many cases, made as much or more sense as the traditional grips. You grab what you can get. If someone leans down, you grab the back of the gi, etc.

I think there's a bit of bias going on. The thing is, alienating other styles like Russian causes beginners like me to be attracted to them.

 

[Abbax8]

In the Masterclass Book Uchi-Mata by Sugai he talks about the difference between Japanese Judo and Western Judo, he states that japanese Judo is more fluid.

That being said, in Best Judo the author states that sometimes the best technique is to use your greater power.

There are definitely different ways to do techniques and some fine examples of fighters who used different styles. A more speed and fluid entry into Uchi-Mata versus a power entry. However neither works unless the technician practices the waza over and over.

Some fighters also have more attitude to their fight than others, this often is looked upon as brutish by others. When you remember that Ippon originally meant a death blow had been delivered, you can imagine the ferocity of the matches. There was no such thing as a rolling Ippon.

Russian Judo is a distinct type of judo, separate from European Judo which is separate from Japanese Judo. Each is influenced by it's roots and culture. Of course the way one does judo at a club practice is different than shiai.

Peace

Dennis

 

[YinYang]

Is Sambo the same as Russion Judo?

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[arnisador]

I ask this question because I've read in various places that Russian and European judo is supposed to be more about power than technique.

I've heard the like also.

Anyway, I got a hold of Igor Yakimov's Secrets of Russian Judo and it's got some of the smartest moves I've ever seen. And almost all of the details that make it different from standard judo were about using MORE technique and LESS power.

I've had similar experiences!

So is this a myth?http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FL_YpFNKpnE

I think the answer is yes and no. There was a time when Europeans and Americans used their larger body size to their advantage when learning Judo (less so in competitions as there are weight classes) and were dissed by their Japanese counterparts for this. But they also made some technical innovations that don't necessarily use strength. They've helped change Judo.

I don't think there's a big difference in strength use though you can often see differences in personal style. I also think it varies from time period to time period--e.g., if the current Russian Olympic Judo coach favors strength, you'll see more of that from there.

 

[arnisador]

Is Sambo the same as Russion Judo?

No, but there is a large Judo influence in Sambo. Western wrestling also is a component. In sport Sambo they use a Judo jacket but not the pants. They wear shorts instead.

 

[punisher73]

That got me too. I kept asking myself how they could possibly be gripping "wrong." When I saw their grips, I couldn't help but think what's the big deal? Russian judo grips, in many cases, made as much or more sense as the traditional grips. You grab what you can get. If someone leans down, you grab the back of the gi, etc.

I think there's a bit of bias going on. The thing is, alienating other styles like Russian causes beginners like me to be attracted to them.

Because the japanese did not train those grips or work counters to them so they were getting beat alot in competition. The rules were then changed in many competitions to prohibit those kind of grips, thus making them "wrong". At least that is what I was told when I studied judo for a very short time.

 

[matt.m]

Fundamentally there is no difference. The whole thing is what gets stressed in training. Without good technique there is no effective Judo, period. However, it is beneficial to have strong core, back, and neck when doing judo. Consider this: 2 people are distance runners. Both run weekly, however one trains harder and more consistantly than the other. Does that make the one a better runner? Not necessarily, that just means the harder worker runs better.