Rotation differences between Eastern/Western styles.

[amateur]

Western martial arts: You rotate by pivoting the back foot.
Eastern martial arts: You rotate by straightening the back leg.

Western martial arts were designed for competitive fights under certain conditions. It's easy to rotate with foot pivoting when you're wearing shoes or when you spar on a gym's smooth floor or an arena's mattress.
But eastern martial arts were designed centuries ago to combat any real life or death situation. Try to pivot your foot on forest ground or on a rocky mountain, especially if you're barefoot (shoes weren't available to everyone back then).
That's why I think that, if you want to become a real warrior prepared for any situation, you should add practicing rotating by straightening your leg (as in eastern reverse punch for example) in your routine.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There's not that much difference, IMO, between the motions. I shift between them when practicing and sparring. With shoes on, there's not much real advantage in keeping the back foot down, except that it almost guarantees keeping the weight behind the forward support (to protect against grappling takedowns).

People who didn't wear shoes on a regular basis wouldn't have had the soft, tender feet you and I have. They would be fully capable of using a foot rotation on dirt or similar surfaces.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Are you talking about static rotation (feet are not moving), or dynamic rotation (feet are moving)?

IMO, the dynamic rotation is more useful than the static rotation. You need to move yourself outside of your opponent's attacking path.

If your opponent steps

- in, you use stealing step (move one leg behind the other).
- back, you use cover step (move one leg in front of the other).

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

What do you mean by rotate by straightening the back leg? Maybe I'm just not picturing it correctly, but that doesn't sound like a rotation to me.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What do you mean by rotate by straightening the back leg? Maybe I'm just not picturing it correctly, but that doesn't sound like a rotation to me.

It seems to me that the OP is talking about the static rotation that both feet are not moving. IMO, the static rotation is not very useful, You opponent will easily take you down by single leg or double legs if your feet are grounded.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Western martial arts: You rotate by pivoting the back foot.
Eastern martial arts: You rotate by straightening the back leg.

Western martial arts were designed for competitive fights under certain conditions. It's easy to rotate with foot pivoting when you're wearing shoes or when you spar on a gym's smooth floor or an arena's mattress.
But eastern martial arts were designed centuries ago to combat any real life or death situation. Try to pivot your foot on forest ground or on a rocky mountain, especially if you're barefoot (shoes weren't available to everyone back then).
That's why I think that, if you want to become a real warrior prepared for any situation, you should add practicing rotating by straightening your leg (as in eastern reverse punch for example) in your routine.

Almost every sentence in that post is incorrect.

 

[Danny T]

Western martial arts: You rotate by pivoting the back foot.
Eastern martial arts: You rotate by straightening the back leg.

Western martial arts were designed for competitive fights under certain conditions. It's easy to rotate with foot pivoting when you're wearing shoes or when you spar on a gym's smooth floor or an arena's mattress.
But eastern martial arts were designed centuries ago to combat any real life or death situation. Try to pivot your foot on forest ground or on a rocky mountain, especially if you're barefoot (shoes weren't available to everyone back then).
That's why I think that, if you want to become a real warrior prepared for any situation, you should add practicing rotating by straightening your leg (as in eastern reverse punch for example) in your routine.

Uhh...not so much.

 

[wab25]

It seems to me that the OP is talking about the static rotation that both feet are not moving. IMO, the static rotation is not very useful, You opponent will easily take you down by single leg or double legs if your feet are grounded.

I believe he is talking about a traditional boxers punch vs a traditional karate punch. Both of these have proven useful and effective in MMA, even against grapplers and wrestlers. (though I believe the boxers punch to be more useful and effective... but I have seen both used quite well) In fact, if you are not well grounded, or rooted, your strike will not have much power. Used correctly, neither of these two punches will effect your mobility for very long. You only need to be rooted at the instant of contact. Both of these styles of punching give plenty of mobility before and after that point in time where you need to be grounded / rooted to deliver power.

Yes, they can be hit with takedowns, and have been. Both the punching and the takedowns are effective. You need the timing and distance to be correct, for your technique. Get either wrong, and you will be hit by the other guys technique, whether it be boxers punch, karate punch or double leg takedown. Being countered by the other guys technique in this matter is more a user error than a fault of the technique.

 

[Flying Crane]

I can only say that the way we do it, we both straighten the rear leg and pivot the foot. Those two things work together to make it happen.

And then, it depends. Sometimes we only straighten the leg. Situational circumstances.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

What do you mean by rotate by straightening the back leg? Maybe I'm just not picturing it correctly, but that doesn't sound like a rotation to me.

I think he's referring to the common JMA practice of teaching the punch from a static stance, driving the hip forward from the heel, so the foot doesn't move but the hips rotate.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I think he's referring to the common JMA practice of teaching the punch from a static stance, driving the hip forward from the heel, so the foot doesn't move but the hips rotate.

Ah. So this thread is referring to power generation, not rotation? That makes a lot more sense. From the words "you rotate by straightening your back leg" since that's not a rotation movement I thought he was referring to either rotating a kick or punch (hook kick/roundhouse), or rotating for footwork (I will sometimes use my back foot as a pivot when someone tries to go at an angle on me).

So the real question would be to rotate the hips or foot for power generation? Then the answer for me is both.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ah. So this thread is referring to power generation, not rotation? That makes a lot more sense. From the words "you rotate by straightening your back leg" since that's not a rotation movement I thought he was referring to either rotating a kick or punch (hook kick/roundhouse), or rotating for footwork (I will sometimes use my back foot as a pivot when someone tries to go at an angle on me).

So the real question would be to rotate the hips or foot for power generation? Then the answer for me is both.

I rotate both when I move the foot. To me, one is just an abbreviated (and more controlled, structurally) version of the other.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Western martial arts were designed for competitive fights under certain conditions.

Say hello to Bartitsu and rough and tumble fighting. (grated former has a fair amount of asian influence but only from grappling) And there are probably plenty of others but im not versed in every martial system of Europe and post European colonization of north America.To which there are hundreds if not thousands, pending definition and scope.

But i would agree a lot have more or less evolved for more sport fighting. Same with plenty of eastern ones.



Also you can do my system not rotate at all. (ask me how that works as i have legitimately no idea, i will embody the definition of a linear style eventually)

 

[drop bear]

Rotation with punches stops you being able to leg check as well. And you will be swept a bit more easily.

Rotating when you kick is a bit quicker but makes it harder to step off line which can leave you open for a counter.

Traditional vs sport is a false distinction in this case.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Rotation with punches stops you being able to leg check as well. And you will be swept a bit more easily.

Rotating when you kick is a bit quicker but makes it harder to step off line which can leave you open for a counter.

Traditional vs sport is a false distinction in this case.

"vs. sport" is often a false distinction, or at least an exaggerated one.

 

[lklawson]

I believe he is talking about a traditional boxers punch

And even that is wrong.


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Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Martial D]

So the real question would be to rotate the hips or foot for power generation? Then the answer for me is both.

That's pretty standard in Western boxing. Your foot is connected to the hip. Foot placement and rotation maps to hip placement and rotation.

 

[Martial D]

And even that is wrong.


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Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

The science of boxing sure has come a LONG WAY since then.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The OP may ask whether one should pivot on the heel, or pivot on the ball of the foot (or toes) during punch.

 

[lklawson]

The science of boxing sure has come a LONG WAY since then.

If you mean that there are a lot of people doing it different now than in the past, they yes.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk