Ron Paul Defends Wikileaks

[Cryozombie]

Congressman Ron Paul addressed the house about Wikileaks. He stated that the attack on Julian Assange is like killing the messenger for bringing bad news and gave them nine questions to consider:

Number 1: Do the America People deserve know the truth regarding the ongoing wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen?
Number 2: Could a larger question be how can an army private access so much secret information?
Number 3: Why is the hostility directed at Assange, the publisher, and not at our governments failure to protect classified information?
Number 4: Are we getting our moneys worth of the 80 Billion dollars per year spent on intelligence gathering?
Number 5: Which has resulted in the greatest number of deaths: lying us into war or Wikileaks revelations or the release of the Pentagon Papers?
Number 6: If Assange can be convicted of a crime for publishing information that he did not steal, what does this say about the future of the first amendment and the independence of the internet?
Number 7: Could it be that the real reason for the near universal attacks on Wikileaks is more about secretly maintaining a seriously flawed foreign policy of empire than it is about national security?
Number 8: Is there not a huge difference between releasing secret information to help the enemy in a time of declared war, which is treason, and the releasing of information to expose our government lies that promote secret wars, death and corruption?
Number 9: Was it not once considered patriotic to stand up to our government when it is wrong?
Thomas Jefferson had it right when he advised 'Let the eyes of vigilance never be closed'
​

This is why I like Ron Paul.

 

[Archangel M]

I really could care less about ASSange. The soldier who stole and distributed classified information however....

 

[K-man]

I have yet to see anything published that could in any way be considered treason. However information that causes polititians red faces because of their lack of honesty .... GO FOR IT!

 

[David43515]

I have yet to see anything published that could in any way be considered treason.

You`re quite right. However the stealing, aquiring, posessing, or transferring to the posession of another of classied government information that you are not qualified to have access to is a felony. Simply by downloading a single classified document onto my computer I would be subject to prosecution and a penalty of upto 10 years in prison.

Selling or accepting stolen goods is a crime, even if you didn`t steal them yourself.

 

[K-man]

You`re quite right. However the stealing, aquiring, posessing, or transferring to the posession of another of classied government information that you are not qualified to have access to is a felony. Simply by downloading a single classified document onto my computer I would be subject to prosecution and a penalty of upto 10 years in prison.

Selling or accepting stolen goods is a crime, even if you didn`t steal them yourself.

Well the US has more people per capita in prison already and you are going to need to build a lot more jails to hold all the journalists, media proprietors and, technically I suppose, anyone selling a newspaper reporting the document.
Then once I buy the paper containing the infomation I am now technically in posession of 'stolen' goods as well. Sorry I don't have the circulation of the Washington Post, the New York Times or the Chicago Tribune at my fingertips but by your definition the vast majority of Australians, Americans, Canadians, British and Europeans could face a significant period of incarceration.

Where you have subterfuge and deception such as these documents are disclosing, I believe there is justifiable cause to report the information. If this was not in fact the case, no newspaper would be publishing the information contained in the documents. :asian:

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

You`re quite right. However the stealing, aquiring, posessing, or transferring to the posession of another of classied government information that you are not qualified to have access to is a felony. Simply by downloading a single classified document onto my computer I would be subject to prosecution and a penalty of upto 10 years in prison.

Selling or accepting stolen goods is a crime, even if you didn`t steal them yourself.

That may be true, but Assange is not a U.S. citizen, nor were his crimes committed in the U.S., so the U.S. would not have legal jurisdiction.

 

[LawDog]

*When aiding someone in the commission of a crime you are just as guilty,
*Many hackers are not from where they have hacked into, say like from the USA, however where they hacked into and what they stole was from within the US borders, issue here.
*Treatys allow the returning of criminals to the USA for crimes committed.
The citizens of this country should be informed that illegal things are being done but not intentionally blabbed out on the internet to foreign countries. These guys did not do this for our citizens sake but just to make names for themselves and maybe down the road movies / books. They don't care about the USA or it's people. Much like in the Arab world they just want to hit us from the back and smiling while doing it.
I guess I'm just old fashion, right or wrong, America first.

 

[crushing]

There is no evidence that either Assange or Wikileaks aided in the stealing of the documents or hacked into any systems to obtain the documents.

By putting Manning in solitary confinement for 7 months, Manning may be ready to say anything to better his own situation. If this were China, Manning would be considered a pro-democracy dissident pushing for transparency in government and on a short list for some peace prize from the West.

The biggest benefactor of the release of these cables is government officials and politicians that would like to take more control of the internet. Something to be expected of authoritarian regimes. Maybe that is why the documents the government released so far have not contained anything very earthshattering or much more than people have already figured out or assumed.

Really, how secret and important are documents to which over 3 million people have access?

 

[Empty Hands]

Selling or accepting stolen goods is a crime, even if you didn`t steal them yourself.

Receiving classified information is not a crime. See: Pentagon Papers and Woodward/Bernstein/Washington Post.

 

[Makalakumu]

I really could care less about ASSange. The soldier who stole and distributed classified information however....

If Manning actually did this, he is a hero IMO, but that is besides the point that needs to be made.

If Manning actually did this, how was he able to get a hold of so many classified documents and not trip off every security measure in existence? The story about him going in with a Lady Gaga CD sounds like ******** to me. There's a lot more going on here then is being reported.

 

[K-man]

I guess I'm just old fashion, right or wrong, America first.

I appreciate patriotism and in most instances I would agree with you. However, Wikileaks is not just about America. Wikileaks have disclosed information embarrassing to Australian and others as well. One of the cables unmasked an Australian politician who was regularly disclosing information to the American ambassador. His name was meant to be suppressed but Wikileaks let it out. Good work. Two things. Firstly, if you look at the definition of espionage does this fall into that category. Secondly, if the recipient of the information was the Chinese ambassador he would have been out on his ear.

I don't care if the American ambassador knows what's going on within Australian politics but it pisses me off that the Australian public doesn't. One of the things given to the US was information regarding the deposing of the Australian Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd. We were told it had happened within a few days but it was disclosed by Wikileaks that in fact the plotting was going on for months. Not surprising that the polies have been caught out lying again.

What are the American politicians frightened of? What are they frightened that might be released that they put pressure on institutions such as Pay pal, Visa, MasterCard and even the Bank of America to stop processing funds transfer?

What are the politicians so frightened of that they have apparently established a Grand Jury to see whether there are any laws broken that would allow Assange to be extradited and tried for treason? What a joke.

How is this different from the suppression of information in countries such as China that the US has always decried? What happened to freedom of information and transparency in government?

If men are caught out acting badly, go for it. The information released is embarrassing but it has not compromised National Security anywhere. If this is so bad, why are all the reputable news services reporting the contents of the cables? Have the editors not made the judgement that the release of information is in the interest of the people?

 

[Makalakumu]

That may be true, but Assange is not a U.S. citizen, nor were his crimes committed in the U.S., so the U.S. would not have legal jurisdiction.

If the US can extradite Assange for "crimes" like embarrassing the government by outings its lies, then what is to stop China or some other country from doing it? This is a global war against freedom of speech, IMO.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

*When aiding someone in the commission of a crime you are just as guilty,

Of what crime did Asange aid in the commision?

*Many hackers are not from where they have hacked into, say like from the USA, however where they hacked into and what they stole was from within the US borders, issue here.

Asange is not the one who did the hacking.

*Treatys allow the returning of criminals to the USA for crimes committed.

Certainly. But again, what crime did Asange commit. Not only that, but the crime committed must usually be something that would be a crime in the host country as well.

The citizens of this country should be informed that illegal things are being done but not intentionally blabbed out on the internet to foreign countries.

Why not? What's the difference in how we get the information. After all, if there were the possibility that the government could actually release information to citizens only, we would all just come here to MartialTalk and blab it out on the internet.

These guys did not do this for our citizens sake but just to make names for themselves and maybe down the road movies / books.

Why should a foreign citizen care about the citizens of the U.S.? Do you care about the people in his country just as much as you do about U.S. citizens.

But perhaps he disagreed with the politics conducted by the U.S., and his purpose is to expose it for what it is. I don't know the guy, but it may be a possibility.

They don't care about the USA or it's people. Much like in the Arab world they just want to hit us from the back and smiling while doing it.
I guess I'm just old fashion, right or wrong, America first.

If we can't control our own secrets, its our fault, not theirs for taking advantage of it.

 

[Bruno@MT]

I read that 1.8 million people could have had access to those cables. Don't know if it is true or not, but if so... it's a wonder things stayed secret in the first place.

But in the end, Assange did not break any laws in running Wikileaks, and imo people who are angry at him are mostly angry about him proving that the emperor is not wearing clothes. shooting the messenger will not fix the problems.

 

[Bruno@MT]

By putting Manning in solitary confinement for 7 months, Manning may be ready to say anything to better his own situation. If this were China, Manning would be considered a pro-democracy dissident pushing for transparency in government and on a short list for some peace prize from the West.

+1

Many people would label Oleg Penkovsky a hero who died a martyrs death.
Others would calling a traiterous SOB who got what he deserved.

 

[Bruno@MT]

I guess I'm just old fashion, right or wrong, America first.

I love my own country as well, but I am also honest enough to admit it when they dropped the ball, and realistic enough to admit when it gets deserved criticism. Patriotism is not about blindly accepting and condoning everything your government says or does.

 

[Bruno@MT]

You`re quite right. However the stealing, aquiring, posessing, or transferring to the posession of another of classied government information that you are not qualified to have access to is a felony. Simply by downloading a single classified document onto my computer I would be subject to prosecution and a penalty of upto 10 years in prison.

Not if you were in another country, and had another nationality.
You don't expect Swedish nationals to be subject to US laws outside of the US territories, do you?

 

[LawDog]

Aid - knowing that the info was stolen - same as possesion of stolen goods.
Hacking - You don't know that he didn't, however he knows who did.
Info. - Wouldn't someone get in trouble if they stole court info and/or cori info and gave it out. How about if all of your personal info was passed out on the internet. I am surprized that you do not mind that foreign nationals are giving out to the world info. that could hurt us? Hanoi Jane to some was a hero, to those who were in the jungle fighting for their lives she was not. This info. could hurt many in the same way or even worse.
To those who praise these guys you do so only because it doesn't effect you personally, what about your fellow country man who it could or does effect?
Secrets- from the wrong point of view, the issue here is not if we can completly control our secrets the issue here is that a few will pass them out for personal gain no matter who it hurts.
Again nothing personal. This is like the 60's and 70's all over again.

 

[LawDog]

Some are forgetting that the info. taken was done at locations from within the USA. This is not like the old days when someone had to be within the USA to get the info. Today they do not have to be physically within this country but, using their electrocs, did enter into the US of A. They did entered into computers within secured locations inside the US of A.
This is an issue - do they have to be physically within or is the hacking into within our borders good enough? The courts will have to decide here not us.
Again - treaties between countries do / will cover areas like this.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Aid - knowing that the info was stolen - same as possesion of stolen goods.
Hacking - You don't know that he didn't, however he knows who did.
Info. - Wouldn't someone get in trouble if they stole court info and/or cori info and gave it out. How about if all of your personal info was passed out on the internet. I am surprized that you do not mind that foreign nationals are giving out to the world info. that could hurt us? Hanoi Jane to some was a hero, to those who were in the jungle fighting for their lives she was not. This info. could hurt many in the same way or even worse.
To those who praise these guys you do so only because it doesn't effect you personally, what about your fellow country man who it could or does effect?
Secrets- from the wrong point of view, the issue here is not if we can completly control our secrets the issue here is that a few will pass them out for personal gain no matter who it hurts.
Again nothing personal. This is like the 60's and 70's all over again.

Every decision has the capability to cause hurt.
I acknowledge that people can get into trouble over the leaked info. Otoh, in the case of the US, maybe more lives would be saved if the US stopped doing things it should not do?

And again, Assange has broken no laws that are applicable to him. He did and does not break Swedish law, and US laws do not apply to him. Regardless of how you feel about this issue, legally he is in the clear.

In the end, if the truth cannot withstand the sunlight, and if people cannot stand behind their words when they are scrutinized, then almost certainly something is rotten. That is why court rulings are public and habeas corpus exists for example.