"rogue" diets...

[Indagator]

Has anybody tried any of the various diets or programs which mainstream medicine labels as "rogue" or unorthodox?

I'm talking about. for example, bio-oxidative/alkalising diets, the "Warrior" diet, Paleo diets, or even a basic diet based on the facts presented in the documentary "Fathead".

Anthony Bova's Spartan Health Regime(n) looks like it all makes sense, definitely worth the money (although there are free copies around of older versions of his program).

I'm interested in hearing a bit about what people have tried, what it entails, and what the results are/were - good or bad.

Even the really bad lol.

 

[punisher73]

Atkins Diet: Since it is probably the most popular and controversial of the diets. Originally, designed by the Mayo Clinic for their patients to lose weight very quickly for surgery. It was never designed to be used as a long term lifestyle.

Most other diets are derivatives of this diet, such as, South Beach Diet utilizing high protein and low carb. South Beach differs in that it encourages carbs in the form of fruits and vegetables, just try to eliminate the grains.

Paleo Diet: Further revision of history and the South Beach diet (not sure which came first, SB was marketing more sucessfully first though to the mass public). Claims that eating only what our ancestors ate we will achieve low body fats and great health. Problem? Our ancestors didn't live that long because of poor nutrition. Again, the main thrust is to eat mostly fruits/vegetables and meats.

Warrior Diet: Claims that our anscestors marched and fought all day so they didn't eat all day until at night. The thrust of the diet is that you fast all day and then eat ALL of your calories for the day in one setting. You definately lose weight because you aren't eating enough.


Zone Diet: Based on having the proper ration of protein/fat/carbs to induce your body to lose weight.

I have read about most of the diets out there, all of them will find SOMETHING to sell their product and get your money. In all honesty, IMO the most effective "market diet" out there is Weight Watchers. No gimmicks, just a way to watch portion size and get just a little bit less calories than you need to lose weight.

That is the key, eat healthy and how much you eat. The fresher you can go the better. Lots of fruits and vegetables and lean meats. Don't worry about their ratios etc. Just watch your portion sizes, which if you are eating healthy you are able to eat more because they have less calories than high fat/starch foods. Everything else out there is just a gimmick, but no one is going to make money off of telling you to eat clean, they have to market in a way and put a spin on it.

 

[Indagator]

Thanks for the info there, Punisher73, although I must clarify that this isn't quite what I was looking for.
I'm up to speed on the apologetic and fundamentals of each of these systems, what I was really after was first-hand accounts of people's experience with them.
There are reasons for this.

Out of interest, though, what is your take on the Spartan Health Regime? Most of it seems pretty much common sense to me...

Out of all of them, the one I am most interested in learning about first-hand accounts re. the effects upon the human body, would be the bio-oxidative/alkalising diets.

 

[harlan]

Lost 75 lbs on the low-carb, appropriate protein 'diet' based on the book by Drs. Eades.

Summation: lost 65 lbs in 7 months. Took a break for 4 years, and every holiday 5 lbs crept back on (I bake a LOT for the holidays). With new health problems last year, I started looking seriously for ways to make permanent healthful changes and revisited the low-carb idea but this time in a moderate way. Have taken off the 20, and now another 10, at about the rate of 5lbs/month.

Side effects the first time around (during drastic weight loss): dizziness, loss of energy, cramps from salt depletion. However, the immediate benefits were no more back pain, and no more sleep apnea (from being overweight). Also, there was a wonderful sense of 'hypersensitivy', of 'body sense', an over-all well-being.

I didn't think to have my blood checked prior to the diet, but after the first 6 months had it checked...and it aced every category. They did blood work up twice...because they couldn't believe it the first time around.

 

[Indagator]

Yes, I too have had pretty amazing weight losses through low-carb. Back in my Muay Thai days I actually went zero-carb (as well as various other things on top of that) about two weeks out from a fight, in order to make the weight.
Worst two weeks of my life, though. Zero carb is hard as hell, definitely not feasible for long-term use lol.

TBH I don't actually think that what they call zero-carb would be strictly zero-carb, there would prob be a wee bit in there.

Basically I just ate lean chicken breast for two weeks.

Lost almost 10 kg in two weeks. Weighed in, pounded a couple of energy drinks and a bit of real food, then got in there and somehow managed a knockout victory.

Of course, after that I suppose all the whiskey I drank would've put a few pounds back on lol.

Whoops. I'm rambling, lol.

Anyway, thanks, Harlan, that's pretty much what I'm after. Have you seen the documentary "Fathead" by chance? I believe it's worth a look, for a number of reasons. Several points you made in your post remind me of it, lol.

 

[harlan]

Been meaning to rent it.

Have to admit...I didn't strictly follow the 'diet' in the book by Drs. Eades ("Protein Power"). The first time was more of a 'crash diet', in that I modified it for 'zero carb'. Now, I live a 'low-carb lifestyle', and try to make better choices (ex: 'carrots or potatos'). Another MA talk member is very keen on this, and related subjects, and blogs about it. I'll PM you.

Another really nice, and unexpected advantage to low-carb: I don't seem to suffer from hot-flashes. It isn't mentioned anywhere, but as a female I started having hot flashes at 48. I noted in particular that they came on strong about an hour or so after carbo-loading. Went back to low, low carb...and they dissappeared. All the women around me at work my age are suffering, and I don't have them at all. Keep that blood sugar low and level.

 

[Carol]

I tried a reduced calorie, low-carb low-fat diet a couple of years ago, medically supervised. The clinic gave me B12 injections 2x/week, MIC injections 1x/week.

Reduced calories being 750 per day. That didn't work for me. My brain was just not processing like it normally does. If I had a brain-dead job, perhaps I could ride it out. But an engineering job where I have to spend 25 percent of my time communicating in a language other than English, I wasn't doing so well. I ramped my caloric intake up and focused on eating as much as I could, that helped a bit. After about a week, I went in to ketosis and started losing weight, nearly all of it fat, so said the Tanita monitor scale.

I stayed on the diet about 3 months. I lost some weight, but I was getting a bit frustrated by the limitations of a ketogenic diet. My company had achieved a major milestone during that period...a milestone huge enough for the executive team to bring in champagne and make mimosas for everyone in celebration. (This is substantial, because we have a fierce ban on alcohol within the building). Yup, that one mimosa was enough to knock me out of ketosis for 4 days, which meant starting over blah blah blah.

After about 3 months, I ran out of the resources I had that were paying for my visits to the clinic. As the injections wore off, so did my ability to tolerate the diet. I started getting bizarre food cravings...like cravings for a big bowl of Lucky Charms. I never ate cereal before I went on the diet...let alone sweet cereal. I was also getting very bored with the food. So, I basically just failed off. Gained back some of the weight, but not all of it. So....that's my story there.

Thing I struggle with the most is environmental. When I get off work, the only establishments that are open are 7-11s and a 24 hour McDonalds. I still haven't mastered the art of keeping a well-stocked kitchen at home, even after 5 years as a shift worker.

 

[elder999]

The Pizza Diet

The Cookie Diet

Cereal Diet

Cerlery Diet

Abs Diet

Breatharian Diet!

The rationale for 95-99% of all "diets"-especially the "rogue" ones- is pretty stupid, as near as I can tell.

"Diets" are dumb. Of course, this comes from a fellow who eats puppy every chance he gets....:lol:

 

[girlbug2]

I have been on paleo for roughly 2 years. Of course I fall off quite frequently when tempted with seasonal delights, particularly pumpkin pie or anything chocolate .

While on the wagon, I have never felt better in my life. Before going paleo, I had various aches in my legs and hips, also lots of acne and oily skin. These problems had plagued me for several years. Within 2 weeks of the diet my skin cleared up and the aches and pains left, never to return. I have a good general sense of wellbeing and energy.

Another weird thing is that my oral hygeine has greatly improved--I only have to brush my teeth before bed, once a day, because the plaque just isn't there anymore. That film that used to be always on the top of my tongue is also gone. My dentist is impressed-he thinks I floss a lot, but truthfully I am lazy and only floss once or twice a week.

The drawback of this diet is largely cultural. People are always trying to get me to eat this and that processed food when I lunch with them or it's a special occasion. My mom thinks it isn't a healthy diet and is worried that I don't eat grains --"it's not a balanced diet" she says. I contend that humans were not designed to eat grains; paleo is the original balanced diet, if you are careful not to overdo the fruits.

 

[elder999]

I have been on paleo for roughly 2 years. Of course I fall off quite frequently when tempted with seasonal delights, particularly pumpkin pie or anything chocolate .

. I contend that humans were not designed to eat grains; paleo is the original balanced diet, if you are careful not to overdo the fruits.

One question here:

How much do you run?

 

[fyn5000]

I read that a proper amount of carbohydrates per meal should be around 60 to 75 grams. A lot of diets that people eat usually contain much more carbs per meal. Without burning off those extra carbs, a person will gain weight (sometimes alot of weight).

I changed my diet to eat only 60 carbs per meal. I didn't change what I ate except leaving out the occasional doughnut or pastry. I lost 75 pounds over a year. I never felt hungry at all.

Fyn

 

[Indagator]

Thanks everyone, this thread is now beginning to shape into what I had hoped.

Fyn5000, how long have you been doing this? And aside from the weight loss have you noticed any other results or side-affects (positive or negative) from this diet?

Girlbug2, over what sort of time period did you notice the dental health improvement? I have read a few books and such, similar to paleo, which refer to the excellent oral hygiene of certain primitive tribes and I believe that their diet may have a lot to do with that.

Elder999, thanks for the input and highlighting some of the more ridiculous diets out there, as well as stimulating (hopefully) some insightful discussion with the question you have asked.

 

[Senjojutsu]

Wasn't America's favorite fat cat, GARFIELD, attributed with this quote?: "DIET is just DIE with a T at the end."

I once read a book (looking for it for proper reference) from a Cardiologist who had developed diabetes as he entered his middle age, and took it almost like an insult and it spurned him to delve into human nutrition and the impact of modern life styles within the past 100 years.

Basically he was somewhat of a paleo diet type advocate - that it is sugar and processed foods since WWII - and as hunter-gatherers we need to walk for distance at least 20 minutes almost every day (automobiles don't just kill us in crashes).

He had an interesting writing style, to whit from the best of my memory:

• Humans can suffer from a caloric deficiency (it's called starvation)
• Humans can suffer from protein deficiencies
• Humans can suffer from vitamin/minerals deficiencies.

But the Doctor wrote he has never found a documented medical case of humans suffering from a STARCH deficiency - as in the staple crops from the cradles of human civilizations - e.g., wheat, corn or rice.
Not to mention those evil potatoes LOL.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I found the best diet ever. It's called 'Diabetes' and I lost 50 pounds at 2 pounds per day. Nearly killed me. Don't recommend it.

My suggestion is the diet nobody likes because you can't write a book about it, you can't sell special food to people who want to do it, you can't go on a talk show or make videos about it, and it isn't fun, instant, or trendy.

Eat less, exercise more. You will lose weight.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Yes. But otoh, you can do what I do: eat as much as you want, including lots of meat, baked in whole butter, cheese, eggs, etc. Just don't eat any (or as few as possible) starches. My bloodwork is just fine.

My weight kept going down slowly until I am now at a lean 163 pounds, and it's been like that for a while now. Additionally, by avoiding carbs during the working week, I simply don't get hungry and I don't have energy dips after lunch.

It would probably also improve the condition of people with diabetes. Starches are not what our body was made for. Interestingly: high carb food is responsible for many of our modern welfare diseases including diabetes. If you want to know more about it, read Taub's 'Good Calories, Bad calories'. It's a real eye opener.

 

[elder999]

and as hunter-gatherers we need to walk for distance at least 20 minutes almost every day (automobiles don't just kill us in crashes). .

This is key-though severely understated-and part of what makes the "paleo diet" simply not paleo at all-not saying that it's a "bad diet"-it's not-in fact, it's a great deal like mine. It's just that the rationale behind it is misplaced and incomplete.

This is how paleothic man hunted before the invention of the spear (earliest example, 400,000 years old, though likely much older) before the invention of the atlatl (pretty solidly late Paleothic) and before the invention of the bow and arrow, very late Paleothic at best. In fact, it's likely that hunts after the invention of the spear also followed such a tactic, though there is some evidence for other tactics like trapping and forcing animals off of cliffs, that also would have required persistence.

Persitence hunting's mechanism is somewhat understated in that article, in that it does not require the high temperatures of the Kalahari. Most mammals cool their bodies by panting-not, as man does, sweating-this limits their ability to run distances. They can run faster than men in spurts, but not over long distances-they have to stop, whereas a man can jog all day, and run for the better part of it. Imagine not being trained to run a marathon, but standing at the starting line in front of me-and I have a knife. While the motivation to get away from me might be strong enough for you to run quite a ways past your comfort zone-and maybe even comfortably outpacing me-eventually you're going to have to lie down, or turn and fight. This is what it is for deer, antelope, elk, moose, bison, elephants, giraffes, and most of the other mammals we hunt-all that's required is the will to run them down and the ability to track them. Some friends and I actually ran down a deer back in the late 70's, simply to see if we could-I don't recommend this, as it was the worst venison I've ever had to eat..

Such hunting would require a higher ratio of carbs than the "paleo diet" of today: carbs being easier to run on immediately, and the form of energy required for the long runs that were also required to obtain much needed (by this point) meat.

The consumption of meat in those times also would have followed a different pattern than that described by the diet, which is supported by our culture's technology and ready availabilty of meat products-if your "hunt" consists of "a walk of at least 20 minutes" to the grocery store, then you haven't really done the work required for that particular reward, have you? Additionally, a "paleo lifestyle" would be seasonal, with higher requirements for such protein and fat in winter, or the Ice Age.
We can see evidence in accounts of North American tribal people, and hunter gatherer bands of Africa:generally, when these people got meat in the form of a large mammal, it was divvied up among the entire band, and they FEAST, as in gorge themselves-though the remainder could be preserved by drying or smoking. We can also see evidence (and support for the "paleo diet") in the Inuit people of the Arctic, whose diet is largely meat, and who are often what we'd perceive as "overweight" but who remain somewhat consistently healthy in terms of blood work and cardiovascular health-in part, likely, because their cold environment requires a larger quantity of fat and protein in the diet, in part because a great deal of the meat that they do consume is higher in Omega-3 fatty acids.

Short answer: if you can't confidently state that you're capable of running for 6 hours, or jogging all day, if necessary, then it isn't "paleo." If you can do that, then it has to be because you run daily, and have run that much on a fairly regular basis-and if you can do that, then you've got to be getting closer to 60% of your daily calories from carbs (yes, good carbs ) than the "paleo diet" people prescribe.

 

[J Ellis]

For a sustainable eating style that is compatible what whatever nutritional plan you may prefer, I recommend the No S Diet.

 

[Carol]

For a sustainable eating style that is compatible what whatever nutritional plan you may prefer, I recommend the No S Diet.

While I really can't stand the author's tone, I think his idea of the 'shovelglove' is absolutely brilliant. I'm going to pick up a sledgehammer and try doing the same. Kinda like a poor woman's kettlebell

 

[J Ellis]

Reinhard is a very nice guy and responsive to questions and feedback about his various systems. Shovelglove is a lot of fun and effective as well.

If you are interested in low cost kettlebelling, you should invest in a Kettlestack. I love mine. Truthfully, I can do all of the exercises I enjoy with a kettlebell with a standard dumbbell also, but there are several I much prefer with the Kettlestack.

 

[fyn5000]

Originally posted by Indagator:
Fyn5000, how long have you been doing this? And aside from the weight loss have you noticed any other results or side-affects (positive or negative) from this diet?

It's been about a year. No side effects except having to purchase new clothes. I haven't felt this good since I was in my thirties. I have more energy, I move faster, feel more motivated, and feel better about myself.

Fyn