rickson gracie

[Odin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPn2HT0MwMs&mode=related&search=

video of rickson gracie rolling...i liked the post ''if rickson is pope then is fedor jesus?''

lol he could be.....

 

[Shogun]

I personally don't like comparing a 185 pound fighter to a 230 pound fighter. Fedor is a great fighter, but they keep putting him up against the same fighters. Big Nog gives him a good fight, but Mark hunt and Mirko crocop would beat him if they had a better ground game, IMO. I am not a big fan of AA, but I DO believe his game is a perfect achilles heel of Fedor. dream matchup, eh?

but back to rickson, he is 47 years old, people should stop trying to get him to fight again. he still GOD when it comes to groundfighting

 

[Odin]

I personally don't like comparing a 185 pound fighter to a 230 pound fighter. Fedor is a great fighter, but they keep putting him up against the same fighters. Big Nog gives him a good fight, but Mark hunt and Mirko crocop would beat him if they had a better ground game, IMO. I am not a big fan of AA, but I DO believe his game is a perfect achilles heel of Fedor. dream matchup, eh?

but back to rickson, he is 47 years old, people should stop trying to get him to fight again. he still GOD when it comes to groundfighting

Is it Fedors fault that Mark hunt and cro cop dont have a good enough ground game?
Comments like that are worthless (no offense) it would be like me saying if i could roll like nog and strike like wandi I would be the champ...me and a couple other hundred people.
Its more then his skills that make fedor (IMO) the king of MMA, look at his his unnatural ability to remain calm at all times, even when odds are stacked so hard against him,look at his seemlessly bullet proof way he soaks up damage yet never loses focus (remember the randleman slam?)his ground and pound is an artform, notice how he doesnt just gain mount and strike randomly like most mma'ers, all his strikes are carefully executed with pin point accuracy Fedor's abiltiy as a fighter is endless...why does he fight the same people...well because he has beaten everyone else!he could move to any federation but could they afford the mill a fight pride has offered him.
Nog has had three attempts at beatin fedor I love Nog as a fighter but Fedor is so beyond anything ive seen.

I agree about rickson not fighting, he shouldnt now he's far to old, he will always be a great jujitsu grappler and in arguments many years to come he will be used to defend the Gracie name to the youngens...'' yes will Royce did loss to Hughes but he wasnt never the best gracie the best grace was a young man named Rickson''....

 

[Odin]

I personally don't like comparing a 185 pound fighter to a 230 pound fighter. Fedor is a great fighter, but they keep putting him up against the same fighters. Big Nog gives him a good fight, but Mark hunt and Mirko crocop would beat him if they had a better ground game, IMO. I am not a big fan of AA, but I DO believe his game is a perfect achilles heel of Fedor. dream matchup, eh?

but back to rickson, he is 47 years old, people should stop trying to get him to fight again. he still GOD when it comes to groundfighting

Sorry AA? is that Arloski?

 

[Rook]

The only person I see as a threat to Fedor right now is Cro-Cop, and with his move to the UFC, I doubt anyone is going to knock Fedor off his pedestal for a while. Hunt is going to be interesting to watch in years to come, but remember that he only did as well as he did in this last fight because Fedor unwisely exhausted himself trying to get an armbar at the begining.

I suspect that Fedor's submissions defense and ussual conditioning precludes a submission by anyone who hasn't significantly worn him down beforehand. If he has any one weakness, it would probably be to leg kicks - his ability to keep forward pressure on Mirko the last time around might not be repeated in a rematch. Cro-cop's ever improving takedown and throw defense might give him the abilty to stay standing long enough to chop Fedor down as he did Yoshida... but this is only speculation and it remains to be seen if it would work.

 

[Raiderbeast]

If Fedor is Jesus then Rickson is God..

 

[Rook]

If Fedor is Jesus then Rickson is God..

How do you figure that?

 

[Raiderbeast]

How do you figure that?

Rickson is undefeated.. Fedor isn't..

 

[Odin]

Rickson is undefeated.. Fedor isn't..

the only fight fedor lost was a stoppage due to cut....thats not really a loss...plus Feodrs record is a lot better documented then Ricksons.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Rickson is undefeated.. Fedor isn't..

Rickson is/was good no question there. But let's be honest about this. Rickson didn't fight as many DOCUMENTED fights as Fedor or the level of professional and highly conditioned competition. Much of Rickson's "legendary" record is speculation and heresay. And therein lies the debate...

 

[Odin]

Rickson is/was good no question there. But let's be honest about this. Rickson didn't fight as many DOCUMENTED fights as Fedor or the level of professional and highly conditioned competition. Much of Rickson's "legendary" record is speculation and heresay. And therein lies the debate...

Amen...but that speculation is what keeps the Graice fans happy.

 

[Rook]

Rickson is/was good no question there. But let's be honest about this. Rickson didn't fight as many DOCUMENTED fights as Fedor or the level of professional and highly conditioned competition. Much of Rickson's "legendary" record is speculation and heresay. And therein lies the debate...

Thats the thing, Rickson never fought anyone even anywhere near the ability of the guys that Fedor is beating. There is really no comparison - Rickson isn't even close.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Thats the thing, Rickson never fought anyone even anywhere near the ability of the guys that Fedor is beating. There is really no comparison - Rickson isn't even close.

How do you know? Have you fought the guys Rickson fought, AND the guys Fedor has fought? Have you accomplished your own black-belt or better status in BJJ, and rolled with each of them that you could make an informed comparison along these same lines?

The unpleasant reality is that we really don't know. And can't, because we lack the ability to be informed consumers, comparing apples to apples experientially.

This is just "who would win...King Kong, or Godzilla?" silliness.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

How do you know? Have you fought the guys Rickson fought, AND the guys Fedor has fought? Have you accomplished your own black-belt or better status in BJJ, and rolled with each of them that you could make an informed comparison along these same lines?

The unpleasant reality is that we really don't know. And can't, because we lack the ability to be informed consumers, comparing apples to apples experientially.

This is just "who would win...King Kong, or Godzilla?" silliness.

That's easy...Godzilla. But on another note one doesn't have to fight either group. Just observe their competition footage. As a case study I'll use the documentary "Choke". You get to see plenty of footage of the guys Rickson fought in this tournament. On guy "Yoshihisa Yamamoto has compiled a 6-15 record and no major titles in this style of competition. Next we have Koichiro Kimura who only fought in this tournament and before that he had never fought in an event that allowed striking. He was a "seasoned" grappler that lost to a kickboxer using a guillotine choke. Next we have Yuki Nakai that was already beaten to the point were both eyes were swoolen shut and was out heavily outweighed. The level of competition was...less than impressive. Let's crunch some numbers here. The total records of both combatants competitiors and the respective win percentage of each of their competition. be back soon...

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Just for Fun:

Rickson's Competition included two documented MMA champion winners (one Japan Vale Tudo and one Pancrase). One was 154lbs and already beaten profusely but I digress there. Rickson's competitiors amassed a total record of 22 wins and 38 losses. That's just under a 37% win percentage.

Fedors Competition included at least five documented MMA champions (UFC, Pride and Pancrase). His competitors amassed a total record of 316 wins and 170 losses. That's just over a 65% win percentage.

Just on sheer numbers Fedor's competiton was stiffer than Rickson's BY FAR. Now who could beat who is always speculation. But ON PAPER Fedor 1) is Younger, 2) is Bigger and 3) has Fought MUCH stiffer competition. So based solely on statistics (which is as close to science as we can get on this kind of topic) I'll have to second Rook on:

"Thats the thing, Rickson never fought anyone even anywhere near the ability of the guys that Fedor is beating. There is really no comparison - Rickson isn't even close."

....ON PAPER. But battles aren't fought on paper...well except maybe tic-tac-toe.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Brazilian underground = who has trained/rolled with whom. Very frequently, these guys have trained together. Many would be surprised to know which MMA celebs have had their asses handed to them on the mat by guys with less impressive documented records. It's usually behind closed doors, with an unspoken gentlemens agreement that nobody's gonna talk about it. It's just a friendly training bout.

I've not heard of this with these two in particular, but have experienced this sort of thing often over the last 17 years. King Kong and Godzilla, unbeknownst to the public, will have frequently rolled together with one or the other coming our of it saying, "Dang. That guy is on another plane altogether."

D.

 

[Raiderbeast]

It's easy to talk about a guy on top of his game. Rickson isn't fighting anymore. Fedor is in his prime right now. In 10 years a discussion can be made but until Fedor reaches the level Rickson is on it's not even close. Pride fans and some MMA fans know about Fedor.. All Martial Artists know about Rickson Gracie.. That's the difference..

 

[Rook]

It's easy to talk about a guy on top of his game. Rickson isn't fighting anymore. Fedor is in his prime right now. In 10 years a discussion can be made but until Fedor reaches the level Rickson is on it's not even close. Pride fans and some MMA fans know about Fedor.. All Martial Artists know about Rickson Gracie.. That's the difference..

This nonsense has got to stop. Many boxing fans and experts have a problem thinking of Marciano as a great fighter and he cleaned out his division and demolished multiple HOF fighters. Rickson was one of the better fighters of his era, but his legend comes out of matches in an era when he was beating Brazil's best streetfighters, not international elite athletes and modern world class fighters. Rickson never beat any of the major fighters that were available to him even in the mid 90s when he was young enought to still compete head to head, and few of those fighters are all that feared today.

 

[Rook]

Just for Fun:

Rickson's Competition included two documented MMA champion winners (one Japan Vale Tudo and one Pancrase). One was 154lbs and already beaten profusely but I digress there. Rickson's competitiors amassed a total record of 22 wins and 38 losses. That's just under a 37% win percentage.

Fedors Competition included at least five documented MMA champions (UFC, Pride and Pancrase). His competitors amassed a total record of 316 wins and 170 losses. That's just over a 65% win percentage.

The other implication you can draw immediately from this information is that Fedor is fighting people who are much more experianced.

If you look further, you will note that many of Fedor's opponents have lost mostly to other very high level elite fighters, whereas Rickson's opponents frequently lost to mediocre opponents.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

The other implication you can draw immediately from this information is that Fedor is fighting people who are much more experianced.

If you look further, you will note that many of Fedor's opponents have lost mostly to other very high level elite fighters, whereas Rickson's opponents frequently lost to mediocre opponents.

I wasn't even going to go that deep into it. But reviewing the fight records you are correct here as well.