Rank, certificates, and the internet

[Bigshadow]

This is something that occurred to me this morning while reading....

In the Bujinkan, my understand and feeling is that rank is quite personal and so forth.... Blah Blah Blah... We have all heard this.

Conversely, (Based on my online reading in these and other forums), interested people are often admonished to verify rank and/or shidoshi certification of a prospective Bujinkan Instructor before training with that person and I agree that this is an important step as well.

However, I have seen a few websites where the instructors have posted photographs of their certificates and Bujinkan Membership cards, etc. While I think that it may allow an interested party to answer the question before contact is made, I can also see it as a negative as well, kind of like putting your rank on Display.


What are your thoughts?


Please do not post links to websites or mention peoples names as I am not trying to draw attention to anyone or any website. I am interested in the thoughts about the concept.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Personally I do not think that rank and or your card should be placed on an internet site. The only reason I feel this way is because of all the unscrupulous indidividuals that might copy/save the picture and start printing off Bujinkan rank and or cards and selling them.

 

[Bigshadow]

Personally I do not think that rank and or your card should be placed on an internet site. The only reason I feel this way is because of all the unscrupulous indidividuals that might copy/save the picture and start printing off Bujinkan rank and or cards and selling them.

That is a great point! That would not be a good thing for sure!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I have seen in the past where somone posted half a rank or half a card to prevent this kind of abuse.

 

[Andrew Green]

Conversely, (Based on my online reading in these and other forums), interested people are often admonished to verify rank and/or shidoshi certification of a prospective Bujinkan Instructor before training with that person and I agree that this is an important step as well.

I think this is more of a internet forum discussion sort of thing, and that in the real world most people really don't care.

On the internet we are all faceless text producing entities. Who we claim to be could have nothing in common with who we are. People are more likely to flat out lie on the internet then they are in the real world. Here I could sign up and say I am a 50 year old practitioner, with over 30 years in ninjitsu. In real life that claim would be laughed at, simply by looking at me.

In the real world we can step out on a matt, start training, and within a few minuts you will be able to tell if I have any idea what I am doing or not, on the internet that is not the case. I could have absolutely no training, and you would not be able to really see that, because you can't see me.

So in questions that an answer is pulling from a place of authority, people naturally turn to a claim that they believe to hold weight, and to be verifiable. And that is rank.

I think it is wrong in a sense because people confuse real life with internet life. In real life if someone wants to see what you can do, they come train with you. If they want to know if you can teach they watch or join a class, look at other students, etc.

On the internet that's not possible. So you have to turn to "proof" that can be produced digitally.

I can't really think of any other field where this happens. If I where looking for a contractor I wouldn't expect him to fax me copies of all his certificates before I decided to use him. I don't think I've ever seen a Doctor or Dentists certificate.

I don't like the idea of posting rank, I'm really not that found of even listing it on a website. If I was interested in someones classes I'd want to go and judge them based on what they do and teach, not on what they have hanging on there wall, which can be very misleading.

 

[Bigshadow]

In the real world we can step out on a matt, start training, and within a few minuts you will be able to tell if I have any idea what I am doing or not

Not if I don't have anything to compare it to. Say I am a new prospective student and I didn't know what the real stuff looks like. I wouldn't be able to tell.

 

[Bigshadow]

If I was interested in someones classes I'd want to go and judge them based on what they do and teach, not on what they have hanging on there wall, which can be very misleading.

True, but at the same time, it can be a double edged sword. To further muddy up the situation, if one does not know what it is they are expected to find, and what they do see looks good, it still may not be what they were looking for.

 

[Andrew Green]

Not if I don't have anything to compare it to. Say I am a new prospective student and I didn't know what the real stuff looks like. I wouldn't be able to tell.

Yes, but the same could be said about fake certificates as well.

I think students should be encouraged to look at sources other then there instructor. Books, videos, internet, etc. If your instructor is teaching crap, you'll figure it out sooner then you would figure out a certificate is fake.

 

[Bigshadow]

Yes, but the same could be said about fake certificates as well.

I think students should be encouraged to look at sources other then there instructor. Books, videos, internet, etc. If your instructor is teaching crap, you'll figure it out sooner then you would figure out a certificate is fake.

True about fake certificates! I totally agree with you regarding to search more than one source of information! It can be a tricky journey. Eventually, a picture will start to develop and ideas formulated and if one chose the right sources of information, they will do OK for themselves, but as with anything it can also be misleading.

So in essence I believe that the journey or search for truth is training in and of itself. It is training at another level that is quite useful in and out of the dojo.

 

[black heart]

is there any sort of data base or someting that all qulified instroctors are registered thru DR. Hatsumi, it would bring more substance to the art and for the instroctors.

 

[mrhnau]

is there any sort of data base or someting that all qulified instroctors are registered thru DR. Hatsumi, it would bring more substance to the art and for the instroctors.

That would actually be great... I do seem to recall that Hatsumi keeps the names of Shihan on the hombu walls. Or is it Godans? Either way, a comprehensive list would be great. Perhaps including date the Godan test was passed?

 

[Drac]

Personally I do not think that rank and or your card should be placed on an internet site. The only reason I feel this way is because of all the unscrupulous indidividuals that might copy/save the picture and start printing off Bujinkan rank and or cards and selling them.

That is a great point! That would not be a good thing for sure!

Ever check all the certificates for sale on e-bay???

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Ever check all the certificates for sale on e-bay???

Well Drac I did and it is a sad commentary that people would be interested in buying rank certificates like that. (really sad)