Punch with Power

[FearlessFreep]

OK, probably comes up pretty regularly but I'm curious about some bio-mechanics involving punching.

1) A previous instructor was big on keeping the hands up for defense and asls punching straight from the chest, shoulder (not dropping the hands when punching)

2) I was watching an MMA fight a few weeks back and the announcer called attention to one of the fighters having his hands lower on his body which made defense harder but that coming from the lower position would allow him to generate more power.

3) My current instructor puts strong emphasis on keeping the hands up, but on punching 'low' (ie...at center-mass/solar plexus)


So I'm somewhat curious if there is an optimal shoulder/hand angle to throw the punch out from for maximum bio-mechanical power.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Fearless,

It depends on where the punch is heading. If a low punch, I prefer the shovel instead.

When punching for power I use weight shift. That is as I punch I move the body just a bit forward, I mean only an inch or so, just at impact. This keeps my balance. Yes I also rotate my sholders a bit, but not enough to unbalance me.

My hands stay UP! One would be an idiot to drop them in a real fight. Someone can throw a fast jab so fast if your hands are down you will eat that punch (or kick!)

While I'm not bad at all with my feet, I'm a hands specialist.

For you guys wanting to become one, weight lift to get good upper body strength, practice speed punching to develop twitch and super twich muscles, and real good footwork. Start with simple punches, work to combinations, add footwork to advance, retreat, sidestep (shuffles, slides, etc...)

It's real good stuff for SD!

Deaf

 

[kenpofighter]

Don't forget that making a loose fist before the punch then quickly making a tight fist on impact makes for a whole lot stronger punch.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Yeah, the loose-then-tight and foot pivot/weight shift, etc...is stuff I know about.

What I'm particularly interested in is power (if any) derived from bio-mechanics based on shoulder/arm alignment.... coming straight out from the chin or coming from lower closer to the waist.

 

[Flying Crane]

well, there are some markedly different punching methods used in various martial arts, and the difference in power can be astounding.

Some Chinese arts such as Tibetan White Crane, use a full-body pivot combined with a swingback of the non-punching hand to gain power thru the most extreme distance of travel possible. If you were to freeze-frame the technique at the moment of termination, the punching fist would be fully extended forward and the other hand would be fully extended to the rear. It's a bit difficult to describe without being able to show it. To many people, if you saw an example of this, you might believe it is over-exaggerated, and to a degree you are correct. In the basic technique we do practice the extreme movement as a way of developing the power thru the pivot. In actual use, this movement can be shortened quite a lot, but having practiced the extreme version of the tech and figured out how to utilize that type of power, we can then capture that power in the shortened version. But the focus of power comes from the full-body pivot that drives the punch.

Other arts use a different method that is probably more common and familiar to most people. Kenpo is one such. We still pivot thru the waist, but not nearly to the extent as TWC. Power begins with a solid stance and transfers thru the torque and pivot of the waist, thru the torso and down the arm to the hand. The Reverse Punch begins in a horse stance, and can either pivot thru the waist while maintaining the horse, or else may be more extreme and pivot into a full bow stance. But one thing that my kenpo instructor stresses, and I agree with him, is that sometimes you simply gotta pull back that fist to a cocked position, in order to get power for the next shot. There's nothing wrong with that. Some people believe you need to hit from whereever your hand is, without drawing to a cocked position. Sometimes this can work, but not always. Sometimes trying to do this can put bad stresses on parts of the body like the shoulders, and end up injuring yourself. So striking from a position with your hand forward will reduce the power that you can generate. If you want to punch with authority, for most people you gotta retract and then hit again, if your hands are forward.

Some arts develop methods of hitting from a very short distance. Wing Chun is one of them. But you gotta train for it in order to get it to work. It's a specific method that most other arts don't really do, so you can't expect to just pick it up automatically.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

It depends on the individual and their bone structure. Being able to punch with power means you have to competently place your bone structure so that it will support the weight of the strike and allow minimal force to rebound.

 

[Touch Of Death]

OK, probably comes up pretty regularly but I'm curious about some bio-mechanics involving punching.

1) A previous instructor was big on keeping the hands up for defense and asls punching straight from the chest, shoulder (not dropping the hands when punching)

2) I was watching an MMA fight a few weeks back and the announcer called attention to one of the fighters having his hands lower on his body which made defense harder but that coming from the lower position would allow him to generate more power.

3) My current instructor puts strong emphasis on keeping the hands up, but on punching 'low' (ie...at center-mass/solar plexus)


So I'm somewhat curious if there is an optimal shoulder/hand angle to throw the punch out from for maximum bio-mechanical power.

Yes... drop the hands for power.
sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

Fearless,

It depends on where the punch is heading. If a low punch, I prefer the shovel instead.

When punching for power I use weight shift. That is as I punch I move the body just a bit forward, I mean only an inch or so, just at impact. This keeps my balance. Yes I also rotate my sholders a bit, but not enough to unbalance me.

My hands stay UP! One would be an idiot to drop them in a real fight. Someone can throw a fast jab so fast if your hands are down you will eat that punch (or kick!)

While I'm not bad at all with my feet, I'm a hands specialist.

For you guys wanting to become one, weight lift to get good upper body strength, practice speed punching to develop twitch and super twich muscles, and real good footwork. Start with simple punches, work to combinations, add footwork to advance, retreat, sidestep (shuffles, slides, etc...)

It's real good stuff for SD!

Deaf

I thing one would be an idiot to destroy your shoulder by not dropping your hands. Even Eazy-E would, "start dropping the dogs" (that mean your hands)
Sean

 

[Marginal]

OK, probably comes up pretty regularly but I'm curious about some bio-mechanics involving punching.

1) A previous instructor was big on keeping the hands up for defense and asls punching straight from the chest, shoulder (not dropping the hands when punching)

2) I was watching an MMA fight a few weeks back and the announcer called attention to one of the fighters having his hands lower on his body which made defense harder but that coming from the lower position would allow him to generate more power.

There's a tradeoff there. The bigger the swing, the stronger it is (Liddell's looping punches) but a 1 can beat them to the punch since 2's slower. How that resolves depends on 1's stopping power/2's chin.

 

[Sukerkin]

Don't forget that making a loose fist before the punch then quickly making a tight fist on impact makes for a whole lot stronger punch.

Quite so. Tenouichi applies just as much to empty hand as it does to armed combat. Tensing the grip (or the fist) turns the whole arm into a rigid object - doing that too soon leaches power and accuracy.

 

[mook jong man]

hi my background is in wing chun so we punch a bit different than everybody else. definately keep your hands up in front of your face its no good having a strong punch if you get knocked out by somebody whos fast and doesnt telegraph. get yourself a wallbag fill it with rice or whatever and practice your method of punching really close in this will give you speed and power and make sure there is no pre-movement, no drawing back. in wing chun there is whats known as the optimum angle its where the elbow is approximately two fist distance from the chest if your standing square on like we do this is where you can generate maximum force in defence and striking. having said that i find a palm strike is more powerful than a punch because there is no power loss through the wrist joint. hope i helped and good luck with your training.

 

[zDom]

... i find a palm strike is more powerful than a punch because there is no power loss through the wrist joint. hope i helped and good luck with your training.

When I started I could deliver more power with palm strike because my wrists weren't strong enough to not fold under full-power strikes.

After several years of training (during which time my wrists strengthened), I found I could pound the bag HARDER with a fist than a palm strike: my hand sinks into the bag with a palm strike, bending wrist backward.

Also, firt is harder surface than palm and gives you an extra couple of inches of reach, which often means more penetration on the strike.

Having said all that, BOTH are useful striking tools. Everybody should have both of them in their toolbox

 

[Em MacIntosh]

When I started I could deliver more power with palm strike because my wrists weren't strong enough to not fold under full-power strikes.

After several years of training (during which time my wrists strengthened), I found I could pound the bag HARDER with a fist than a palm strike: my hand sinks into the bag with a palm strike, bending wrist backward.

Also, firt is harder surface than palm and gives you an extra couple of inches of reach, which often means more penetration on the strike.

Having said all that, BOTH are useful striking tools. Everybody should have both of them in their toolbox

The goju concept of hard and soft applies well regarding usefulness of the strike, assuming your wrists are strong enough to withstand full force impact. You can punch someone easier in the armpit (general area, like the side of the upper ribs or the underside of the arm near the shoulder) with a fist better than a palm heel, IMO.

Warming up the cartilage and numbing the knuckles a little bit will give you a little more ability to withstand the impact and this will reinforce your "bravery" to hit the bag/target full force. It's important to conentrate on your personal allignment too. In order for my primary knuckles to make contact before my secondaries I have to bend my wrist forward a little further and I've had to build up strength to punch like this slowly to minimize the chance of injury. As I've build up the resistance to impact with my wrist in that position I've increased my wrist strength overall for other strikes as well.

 

[MattJ]

Hi Freep. As to hand/shoulder position, ideally it would be as far away from the opponent as possible, to create maximum speed/force. This is not always practical, since the opponent will generally fight back. :enguard:

Really depends on where your hands are, and what you are trying to hit.

Otherwise, there are many factors in proper punching technique. Hip rotation, knee bend (weight transfer), synergistic timing of your joints, tight center of gravity (elbows in). These are just some factors to be considered when hitting a bag. On a person, you also have to take into account target accuracy, target penetration, collision timing (hitting the opponent when he is coming towards you, not moving away). Etc.

This is why people use clubs, knives and guns, LOL.