Pull vs. Push

[Kung Fu Wang]

In many MA demo, people show how to "resist against pushing". So far I have not found any clip online that demo "how to resist against pulling" yet. IMO, if you have good rooting against pushing, you should also have good rooting against pulling. My question is what's the value if you only train and have the ability to deal with "pushing", but you don't train and have the ability to deal with "pulling"?

What's your opinion on this?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Against a push is more impressive, because you can get that leg way behind you and look like you're standing straight - like in the top picture. Much more resistance to pull is available than resistance to push, because of our body structure.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Against a push is more impressive, because you can get that leg way behind you and look like you're standing straight - like in the top picture. Much more resistance to pull is available than resistance to push, because of our body structure.

Are you saying it's easier to deal with "pulling" than to deal with "pushing"?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Are you saying it's easier to deal with "pulling" than to deal with "pushing"?

The opposite.

 

[Kickboxer101]

We do deal with pulling what I've always been told is you if want to beat it meet it. In kenpo if someone's pulling you in you don't fight it you go with it and come in with a strike. E.g one technique is against a 2 hand grab on the shirt and pulling you in what you do is step in as they pull and do a heel palm to the face to off balance them, or another a shoulder grab pull in from the rear you step in with it and deliver a back elbow to the stomach.

 

[Juany118]

We do deal with pulling what I've always been told is you if want to beat it meet it. In kenpo if someone's pulling you in you don't fight it you go with it and come in with a strike. E.g one technique is against a 2 hand grab on the shirt and pulling you in what you do is step in as they pull and do a heel palm to the face to off balance them, or another a shoulder grab pull in from the rear you step in with it and deliver a back elbow to the stomach.

This is exactly it. On a couple of occasions I have been "pulled". (Say when a person is trying to pull away.) In each occassion I didn't pull back, I let them pull me but controlled my path and they got an elbow to the face for their trouble.

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[Gerry Seymour]

We do deal with pulling what I've always been told is you if want to beat it meet it. In kenpo if someone's pulling you in you don't fight it you go with it and come in with a strike. E.g one technique is against a 2 hand grab on the shirt and pulling you in what you do is step in as they pull and do a heel palm to the face to off balance them, or another a shoulder grab pull in from the rear you step in with it and deliver a back elbow to the stomach.

Yes. You can clash with incoming force (push vs. push) in some cases and then change the force, but trying to clash with retreating force (pull vs. pull) is inefficient and largely ineffective.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This is exactly it. On a couple of occasions I have been "pulled". (Say when a person is trying to pull away. In each occassion I didn't pull back, I let them pull me but controlled my path and they got an elbow to the face for their trouble.

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Don't you just hate it when they pull your danged elbow into their own face?

 

[Juany118]

Don't you just hate it when they pull your danged elbow into their own face?

I know right? Lol

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[Kickboxer101]

Also to add if they're pushing you it's easy to just step back and establish a base to counter or heck if they're just doing a double hand shove then why do anything they're getting you away from them which is what I'd want anyway to be away from the attacker. As long as you're not getting pushed into traffic or something and of course being ready for a follow up attack but really a push away isn't something I'm scared of I've got tecniques to defend it since if you block their push they're momentum is coming forward and you can use an opposing force to cause more damage especially since they've pushed they won't have a guard up but really one time I've had to defend myself someone's pushed me back which they did to me then they attacked and I threw a front kick which knocked them away then I ran off.

The danger of a push if someone has grabbed you then is trying to push you somewhere. Then you'd need to get a base so they can't move you then do what you can to break the grip. But when someone's grabbed you the grab becomes a dead attack meaning once they've grabbed you they can't do anything with their hands without losing their position so really your not worried about the hands anymore and just have to worry about the knees or a headbutt

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Also to add if they're pushing you it's easy to just step back and establish a base to counter or heck if they're just doing a double hand shove then why do anything they're getting you away from them which is what I'd want anyway to be away from the attacker. As long as you're not getting pushed into traffic or something and of course being ready for a follow up attack but really a push away isn't something I'm scared of I've got tecniques to defend it since if you block their push they're momentum is coming forward and you can use an opposing force to cause more damage especially since they've pushed they won't have a guard up but really one time I've had to defend myself someone's pushed me back which they did to me then they attacked and I threw a front kick which knocked them away then I ran off.

The danger of a push if someone has grabbed you then is trying to push you somewhere. Then you'd need to get a base so they can't move you then do what you can to break the grip. But when someone's grabbed you the grab becomes a dead attack meaning once they've grabbed you they can't do anything with their hands without losing their position so really your not worried about the hands anymore and just have to worry about the knees or a headbutt

I'm not interested in letting someone else provide the momentum for me to go backwards. If I move me, I keep weight underside and stable. If they move me, they are typically pushing back the top of my body and I'm moving legs to try to keep under them. If I can step back to absorb it, that's different, but I'd actually rather move in off-line if I see the cues early enough - I have much better control of them if I use their momentum to sneak behind the shoulder.

 

[marques]

I do no distinction dealing with one or another. It is let go (just keep standing) and change direction when it is the moment. Then 1000 options...
I think I have no / miss roots.

 

[Flying Crane]

The problem is, that push can come in fast and hard and completely by surprise, and you get shoved over or shoved into a wall or shoved into traffic before you even know it's happening.

Don't underestimate it.

 

[mograph]

The problem is, that push can come in fast and hard and completely by surprise, and you get shoved over or shoved into a wall or shoved into traffic before you even know it's happening.

Don't underestimate it.

Interesting. Pulls come with a warning, right? ... in that the opponent needs to contact you, get a grip, then pull you. However, a push is only one step: make contact quickly and with weight.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The problem is, that push can come in fast and hard and completely by surprise, and you get shoved over or shoved into a wall or shoved into traffic before you even know it's happening.

Don't underestimate it.

The same can be said of a punch. Training reduces the chance of it being faster than your response.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Interesting. Pulls come with a warning, right? ... in that the opponent needs to contact you, get a grip, then pull you. However, a push is only one step: make contact quickly and with weight.

They'd still have to step in. If we assume the push is from the front (the only direction included in the original post), then it's unlikely to be without warning. From the rear, everything is a surprise.

 

[Xue Sheng]

In many MA demo, people show how to "resist against pushing". So far I have not found any clip online that demo "how to resist against pulling" yet. IMO, if you have good rooting against pushing, you should also have good rooting against pulling. My question is what's the value if you only train and have the ability to deal with "pushing", but you don't train and have the ability to deal with "pulling"?

What's your opinion on this?

Who doesn't deal with pulling, ever heard of stick and follow, it is part of taijiquan training, as is rooting and fajin training