Practising on mats...

[Mastodon]

At my dojo we practise on hard floors in order to prepare us for real life combat, is this quite common in Bujinkan training? Any thoughts?

 

[rutherford]

A hardwood floor is still more forgiving than a narrow alley littered with broken bottles and pot holes.

But, yes, the training group I was with trained on a hardwood floor or outside.

 

[DWeidman]

At my dojo we practise on hard floors in order to prepare us for real life combat, is this quite common in Bujinkan training? Any thoughts?

Common, yes.

Smart, no.

-Daniel

 

[Mastodon]

A hardwood floor is still more forgiving than a narrow alley littered with broken bottles and pot holes.

But, yes, the training group I was with trained on a hardwood floor or outside.

That's a little pedantic don't you think rutherford...

I personally think it's a great idea. I'm sure I will incur some bumps and bruises, but in the long-run i'm training to learn how best to defend myself should the time come, as my sensei makes a point of telling us 'It's a martial art, not a sport!'

 

[rutherford]

That's a little pedantic don't you think rutherford...

I personally think it's a great idea. I'm sure I will incur some bumps and bruises, but in the long-run i'm training to learn how best to defend myself should the time come, as my sensei makes a point of telling us 'It's a martial art, not a sport!'

No. It's important to keep in mind that most training is stimulation and not simulation. By that I mean that we're promoting attribute growth and acquiring skills but not actually simulating combat. In combat, things are messy and environmental factors may seriously impact one's ability to safely take ukemi. So, even if you've acclimated yourself to hard surface falls and rolling, it still might be a very bad idea.

How to defend yourself when the time comes is entirely dependent upon that time and space.

Training with a partner on a hardwood floor exclusively can be a bad idea for a number of reasons. For uke, it makes the cost of failure higher by increasing the chance of injury. But it also makes it harder to effectively train the other side as well. Many times we want to specifically deny uke any chance to take ukemi, in which case a mat might be the only protection they have against injury.

Is it important to practice ukemi on a variety of surfaces? Absolutely.

Is it a good idea to train with a partner on a variety of surfaces? Absolutely.

Is training on a hardwood floor the safest and most effective way to train in all circumstances? Not so much. And definitely not for the reason you give.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Training outside, training on hardwood floors, concrete floors, matted floors are just a part of the process. As Rutherford is saying they are not the same as combat but each provides a different experience and that is important in training.

On another note there is absolutely nothing wrong with training on mats as Sensei and the Shihan all do and yet they have trained outdoors and on other surfaces as well which is essential.

 

[TheDonster]

I have always preferred training on wooden flooring and since that's what 99% of my training is done on, it's good .

Doing dive rolls onto a wooden floor after practising them on mats is dangerous. I never practise dive rolls on mats, and I try and practise them most often on concrete, carpet and wooden floors because softer surfaces allow you to make mistakes and wreck your ukemi...

 

[runnerninja]

Most of our training is done indoors on mats or outside on grass. While I find these good for learning rolls and dives Im happy to train on harder surfaces such as wood or concrete. Think its good to have the variety.

 

[stephen]

I think training is difficult enough, I prefer mats.

I'm all doing some training on hard surfaces (I have mats one day and hardwood the other), but I find that beginners have a very difficult time learning proper ukemi on hardwood.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I think training is difficult enough, I prefer mats.

I'm all doing some training on hard surfaces (I have mats one day and hardwood the other), but I find that beginners have a very difficult time learning proper ukemi on hardwood.

The point here about beginner's having a very hard time learning properly on hardwood floors is very true and sometimes they can develop some bad habits ie. flinching, etc.

 

[TheDonster]

I developed my rolls right from the start on wooden floors, and I used the pain to figure out what I was doing wrong (mostly side of the hip and top of the shoulder).



While I'm aware that some people are unable to start rolling on hard surfaces straight away, rolling on those surfaces IMO should be developed and honed as soon as it is possible to do so. If I were to get into a fight, I expect it would be on a concrete path, or road or something - and I'd want to be able to breakfall and roll on such a surface without any danger of injury whatsoever.

I've also just started practising my rolls shirtless on asphalt, and discovered flaws with my backwards rolls VERY quickly!!!


We also train primarily on wooden floors at my dojo, although mats are sometimes brought out when working with techniques that are unlikely NOT to cause injury, or for new students working with slightly more dangerous throws and stuff.

 

[Highland Ninja]

Personally I prefer hardwood floors. They're hard, but they have more "flex" than a concrete floor. Back in the 80's in Highland Indiana, we trained on a concrete floor with paper thin carpeting. Though being almost twice the age I was then, I suppose I don't mind training on tatami mats these days, if it came to that. Well, that and a back injury I'm fixing up.

I think it's best to learn to roll on grass. If you have a decent grassy lawn, it's realistic and yet soft. It doesn't have the "cushion" of tatami (or worse, rubber/foam mats), but it does have more cushion than wood floors (or concrete!). Seems to me that a grassy surface is forgiving enough for beginners and yet realistic enough to give you sufficient feedback on how you're doing. I learned mainly on my front lawn.

I was outside doing some practice rolls and surprised myself (and impressed the hell out of my neighbor) by diving over a bush and doing a pretty good forward roll. Not as smooth as it was in the 80's, but no pain either. Tried it on the cement and I felt it some. Not enough tucking and relaxing. Ow!

But no bruises! :ultracool

I think rolling is like bike riding. Once you get it, you always have it, although you can always get better at it. Not sure I'd try a sideways roll on cement right now. Yikes!

But I think it's essential to eventually develop the ability to roll on hard surfaces, uneven surfaces, etc. Yes, beginners should start on something softer so that they don't get injured or develop fear, but as they gain skill and confidence I think they should keep going. Grass, hardwood, carpeted tile floor, concrete, rubble/stones. In that order.

 

[Bigshadow]

Terrazzo is not soft either, slippery too. It makes for some interesting training. For the most part I prefer mats or grass, but I will go with whatever I have to work with.

I would think for starting out, a padded floor is best. This way someone can learn to roll properly without all that distracting pain. Once they have the basics and a little bit of confidence, move them from the mats to the floor. After that they should be good to go.

Rolling aside, the next big thing is being able to take ukemi from the myriad of places one can end up. Just because someone can roll doesn't mean they can take ukemi from everything.