Police: Arizona church is a brothel

[Bob Hubbard]

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

• The Phoenix Goddess Temple advocates "neo tantric" healing therapies, police say
• But "practitioners" at the temple allegedly gave sex for "donations," police say
• 20 women and men have been arrested, and 17 more people are sought

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/09/09/arizona.church.prostitution/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

"Church" Web site's down.

 

[granfire]

I wonder why....
:lfao:

Damn, finally a church that practices what it preaches, they close it down!

(hints as to the use of the coitus as religious ceremony shall be kept for a serious thread)

 

[Sukerkin]

This is the core of the matter I reckon:

"We certainly respect First Amendment rights. However, religious freedom does not allow for criminal acts," Martos said.

I am one of those who think that the legalisation of prostitution should go ahead so as to remove many criminal aspects that adhere to the 'profession'. But, as with my views on the legalisation and commercialisation of 'leisure' drugs, my stance remains firmly that if it is illegal then do not do it.

Simples {Meercat voice there}

{To explain the origin of "simples", please watch this video http://meerkat.comparethemarket.com/my-movies }

 

[Bob Hubbard]

"We certainly respect First Amendment rights. However, religious freedom does not allow for criminal acts," Martos said.

1 word - Peyote.
Numerous groups are allowed to do things that are illegal for the rest of us.

 

[Archangel M]

Peyote is legal in some Native American ceremonies because there is a historic/cultural precedent. Would we allow human sacrifice? This is prostitution under the guise of religion. Book em Danno.

 

[cdunn]

Temples have sponsored prostitution since before mankind invented writing. Let em have their day in court, but yeah, shut them down until it gets settled.

 

[Archangel M]

No temples that haven't been extinct for over 1000 years. People stating that they are the inheritor of some extinct religion so that they can have prostitution are full of crap.

 

[Archangel M]

Regarding the Goddess Temple's website, he said: "What they would talk about would seem to be religion. At the same time, they were implying or intimating that they were giving sex therapy."

The website says at one point: "Sex is a holy, sacred and divine healing force at the core (of) our beings. Once we embrace this force instead of deny it, we become successful, happy and powerful manifestors."

The website also features unclothed women, listed as residing in several states, under a "Goddesses" section.

This was a creative cover for an escort service...nothing more.

If you want to discuss the legalization of prostitution thats one thing, but if you seriously think that this is a legitimate religious issue I have a few bridges to sell you.

 

[Sukerkin]

:chuckles: I do have to agree with Angel; this stinks to high heaven {yeah, mythology pun attack! } of someone trying to put a new twist on an old way of doing business.

Full marks for creativity but I'm not sure they envisaged getting away with it for long.

Mind you, can you imagine what would happen if they won their day in court?! Even tho' I disdain it {religion that is}, freedom of religion is an important tenet of law; opening the door for even greater abuse of faith as a cover for nefarious activity {as if tele-evangelism wasn't bad enough} would not be a great move.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Arch, I'm in complete agreement with you...but still...I wish I'd thought of it. LOL!

 

[Flea]

Meh. If everyone's a consenting adult, who cares?

"We certainly respect First Amendment rights. However, religious freedom does not allow for criminal acts," Martos said.

The hypocrisy of this statement really sticks in my craw. What about all the actual atrocities committed in the name of religion? Things like animal and human sacrifice, pedophile priests, the Inquisition, witch hunts (literal and otherwise,) and genocide? Yes, prostitution is illegal so they have to prosecute it. But I think that as a society we're missing the point here.

 

[Senjojutsu]

Would we allow human sacrifice?

As a confirmed High Druid Priest (Orthodox, or am I Reformed?) that has been a major beef of mine for decades!

It just isn't a real Druid Equinox service without a virgin sacrifice IMHO.

The simple answer boys & girls is you can believe ANYTHING in your religious BELIEF system/dogma.

Your own "religious practices" cannot supersede the Western secular law of the nation - well - for the time being that is... :uhohh:

Anyway:

An Arizona Church that is a brothel?

CAN I GET AN AMEN!

BTW America's favorite Pentecostal Prostitute-hiring Pastor himself, JIMMY "I HAVE SINNED" SWAGGERT was unavailable for comment on this story!

I'll stop with the sarcasm now and light a candle...
:angel:

 

[elder999]

Sex rites exist in a variety of religions, across a wide spectrum-not only wiccan, pagan or neo-pagan. There are tantric rites in Hinduism and Buddhism. The idea of making a donation to have sex in a temple is not only not that far-fetched, but might not meet the legal definition of "prostitution," no matter how much they try to color it as an escort service or brothel: if I give money to a hotel for a room, and then wind up consentually having sex with the woman at the front desk in that room , am I guilty of soliciting? Is she guilty of prostitution? Is the hotel a brothel?I don't think so.

More to the point, Bob's example of peyote was the precedent for the recent ruling on the use of ayahuasca by the SUpreme Court. It's completely legal, now, for anyone to possess ayahuasca vine and use it, though the use and possession of its active ingredient, DMT is still illegal. Admittedly, its status is still a bit of a muddle-I don't think anyone can import the stuff anymore, but I don't doubt for a minute that some people are growing it-this, too, might still be illegal.

Put religion into the mix, and the definitions of what is "legal" or "illegal" become really interesting.

 

[granfire]

As a confirmed High Druid Priest (Orthodox, or am I Reformed?) that has been a major beef of mine for decades!

It just isn't a real Druid Equinox service without a virgin sacrifice IMHO.

The simple answer boys & girls is you can believe ANYTHING in your religious BELIEF system/dogma.

Your own "religious practices" cannot supersede the Western secular law of the nation - well - for the time being that is... :uhohh:

Anyway:

An Arizona Church that is a brothel?

CAN I GET AN AMEN!

BTW America's favorite Pentecostal Prostitute-hiring Pastor himself, JIMMY "I HAVE SINNED" SWAGGERT was unavailable for comment on this story!

I'll stop with the sarcasm now and light a candle...
:angel:

keep the burn laws in mind when you light your candles!

 

[Archangel M]

The criminal part is simple...follow the money.

If the..."goddesses" are pocketing the cash or the "temple" is taking a cut of the "donations" given to the "goddesses" as profit. it's promotion of prostitution. If you really think this is an actual religion/church and not simply a creative escort service you are kidding yourself.

Them promoting this as "therapy" only serves to reinforce my opinion. Is this a rite or a "medical service"?

Debate the merits of legalized prostitution if you like but sell this sunshine to another rube.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[elder999]

The criminal part is simple...follow the money.

If the..."goddesses" are pocketing the cash or the "temple" is taking a cut of the "donations" given to the "goddesses" as profit. it's promotion of prostitution. If you really think this is an actual religion/church and not simply a creative escort service you are kidding yourself.

Them promoting this as "therapy" only serves to reinforce my opinion. Is this a rite or a "medical service"?

Debate the merits of legalized prostitution if you like but sell this sunshine to another rube.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

It doesn't matter what I think. The 1st Amendment says that if they call it a religion, then it is.

The money trail will probably be equally interesting-if they pass the plate around, as at a conventional church, rather than having a minimum donation for "services rendered" how does that affect the money trail? It'll be settled in court, and I actually don't know-I do know that there are clubs all over the country that charge entry fees for consenting adults to have sex with each other, and they don't get shut down as brothels. I think someone got wind of what was going on and either thought that they could get themselves a high visibility prosecution or simply went on another taxpayer funded crusade to control people's behavior, "Oh that's outrageous, we have to put a stop to it!" Or, it really could be organized crime-a brothel/prostitution ring. I just don't think it's a slam-dunk on the basis of the facts presented, and it's entirely possible that it really is religious activity.

 

[Archangel M]

This is as much about "religion" as Asian Spas are really about "massage". I'd bet on that.

Web pages of out of state "goddesses"? Pfft..that's classic escort services.

"The money wasn't for sex ...it was a donation", is the classic escort rap.

Like...the money was for the massage, not the happy ending.

Pfft.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[Bob Hubbard]

having seen the website, i'm in agreement with arch here

 

[elder999]

having seen the website, i'm in agreement with arch here

Not even having seen the website, so am I. That's not the point.

It doesn't matter what we think-even those in law enforcement. Simply because money changed hands and sex took place doesn't make it prostitution. And there are sex rites in a variety of religions-not enough to call it commonplace, or mainstream, but more than enough for legal precedent.

Sure. It's a brothel.Proving it in court might not be the slam dunk that it seems, even with the website evidence.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

It'd be easier to prove prostitution if the 'goddesses' were actually hot.

Just sayin.....