Pirate: Captives Will Die If Rescue Attempted

[MJS]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110301/ap_on_re_eu/piracy

COPENHAGEN, Denmark – Any attempt to rescue a Danish family captured by pirates in the Indian Ocean will result their deaths — just like the four American sailors slain by their captors last week, a Somali pirate warned Tuesday.
Maritime experts said the Danes — a couple with three teenage children aged 12 to 16 — placed themselves in grave danger by sailing into pirate-infested waters off Somalia's lawless coast despite warnings from naval forces struggling to police the area.
The family was captured Thursday by pirates along with two Danish adult crew members after sending a distress signal from their sailboat, the Danish government said, adding it was doing "everything in our power" to help them.
Abdullahi Mohamed, a pirate who told The Associated Press he has ties to the gang holding the Danish family, said they will be killed if any rescue operation was carried out. He specifically referred to the killings last week of four American hostages captured by pirates on their yacht.

Another small boat captured, and more death threats. Its difficult to police every bit of water in that area, but its too bad nothing can be done to stop this from happening. Obviously if at all possible, stay the hell out of that area.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Maybe it's time to simply execute any and all pirates caught, on the spot?

 

[elder999]

Maybe it's time to simply execute any and all pirates caught, on the spot?

As a sailor, I've been pushing for being properly armed and practicing "repel boarders" drills since before the death of Peter Blake, in 2001, though in his case being armed and pretty drunk probably killed him as much as the boarders-early on, like the late 80's or early 890's, I was more concerned about the pirates in the Sulu and South China Seas. The MO in the Indian Ocean,just like in the South China and Sulu seas, is pretty much to chase the trargeted vessel with a motor-launch or Zodiac. A .308 (or better) round in the hull at the waterline, and one for the helsman might give one time to get away-or, kill everyone on board the attacking vessel, just to be sure.....in any case, don't let them get on board, or even close enough. The pirates changing their game with this tactic leads to this being the only response, though it was always part of my plan....

Either that, or stay out of the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea.....

 

[granfire]

I am not a sailor, but daughter of an RV enthusiast....when the basks made waves my Dad changed travel plans, going from RVing to flying to the beach resort...

I mean, the Pirate thing is not a new thing, why oh why do people in there smallish boats still travel those seas?

On the other hand, considering jacking a big vessel has been for years a good business model, usually the owners paid and kept on 'trucking'

So what escalated?

(please educate me as to what makes sailing around Somalia and the South Chinese Sea is so much better than, say the Mediterranean or the Pacific? I do not have sea legs.)

 

[Archangel M]

IMO this is a ******** ploy by the pirates to cover the fact that they are scared ******** of getting capped by modern rescue teams.

I believe that piracy is one of our Navy's founding mandates..and I believe that the USMC hymn has something to do with killing pirates no?

 

[elder999]

I(please educate me as to what makes sailing around Somalia and the South Chinese Sea is so much better than, say the Mediterranean or the Pacific? I do not have sea legs.)

Aside from the whole circumnavigation mystique, there are several remarkable destinations along the way-far too many to list. Just off the top of my head, there's Madagascar, Mauritius, Zanzibar, and the Seychelles.....South China Sea is really part of the Pacific, and destinations there include the Phillipines, Malaysia, Indonesia and Vietnam....hell, you're basically talking about a third or so of the world.....

 

[granfire]

IMO this is a ******** ploy by the pirates to cover the fact that they are scared ******** of getting capped by modern rescue teams.

I believe that piracy is one of our Navy's founding mandates..and I believe that the USMC hymn has something to do with killing pirates no?

If not they should add that verse...

I know pirates have a mystique...but those guys aren't Johnny Depp. Maybe doing it the old fashioned way would help: Hang them at the harbour entrance till the seagulls picked the bones clean....

 

[granfire]

Aside from the whole circumnavigation mystique, there are several remarkable destinations along the way-far too many to list. Just off the top of my head, there's Madagascar, Mauritius, Zanzibar, and the Seychelles.....South China Sea is really part of the Pacific, and destinations there include the Phillipines, Malaysia, Indonesia and Vietnam....hell, you're basically talking about a third or so of the world.....

I hear it's pretty there, but the price is too high!

 

[elder999]

I hear it's pretty there, but the price is too high!

Up until recently, Somali pirates weren't much of threat to yachting. THe SOuth CHina and Sulu seas were another story: back in the 70's, those guys were preying on Vietnamese boat people.....one of those kids doing a circumnavigation in the last coupla years encountered pirates in the Indian Ocean, and stood on deck brandishing a revolver. They left him alone, probably mostly due to the fact that his vessel was smallish, and he probably looked poor, but even a minor show of force might have made them decide he wasn't worth the trouble....

....the larger carriers are starting employ the sort of tactics I've spoken of, and now can have a large, armed security detail supplied by a military contractor like Xe, well trained for such an eventuality. If you're a pirate, you don't know how they're equipped, so why take the chance? The yacht thing is a relatively new iteration-they'd done it before for ransom, but not as often as seizing cargo vessels, which were more predictably lucrative.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

It is *not* too difficult to patrol those waters. Put a detail of US Marines on every US-flagged ship that passes by that area. End of problem. Private pleasure vessels are on their own - they know the risks.

This solves several problems. One, it ends the problem of US ships being flagged under the flag of another country to avoid paying US taxes and being subject to US safety inspections, etc. Two, it encourages other countries to do likewise for their own commercial shipping. Three, it's good target practice for the Marines. We like to shoot things and blow stuff up and we're pretty good at it.

End of problem. Take six months, tops.

And by the way, we've done it before. That's where we got the song lyrics '...to the shores of Tripoli..." We hate pirates, and we love to shoot them stone cold dead. Just give the word, and the problem ends.

 

[Aiki Lee]

Damn cowards

 

[Empty Hands]

It is *not* too difficult to patrol those waters. Put a detail of US Marines on every US-flagged ship that passes by that area. End of problem. Private pleasure vessels are on their own - they know the risks.

While I share the sentiment, there's about 200,000 Marines total and more than 40,000 US flagged shipping vessels (although I don't know how many of those traverse dangerous areas). Seems a bit impractical.

Besides, wasn't Elder's point that the pirates are starting to target small private vessels because the big shipping companies are putting security teams on their ships?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

While I share the sentiment, there's about 200,000 Marines total and more than 40,000 US flagged shipping vessels (although I don't know how many of those traverse dangerous areas). Seems a bit impractical.

Besides, wasn't Elder's point that the pirates are starting to target small private vessels because the big shipping companies are putting security teams on their ships?

There are not 40,000 vessels off the coast of Somalia at any given time. We could easily station a troop carrier outside the danger area (or a safe land based encampment), plant a crew of Marines on each ship as it entered the area, and take them off again at the other side, returning them to the troop carrier or encampment.

I guess we could do it for private vessels that wished to pay for such services as well.

Not really an issue. And as to the number of Marines...if it should prove insufficient for any reason, more can be made. It only takes 13 weeks to make the world's finest.

 

[MJS]

It is *not* too difficult to patrol those waters. Put a detail of US Marines on every US-flagged ship that passes by that area. End of problem. Private pleasure vessels are on their own - they know the risks.

This solves several problems. One, it ends the problem of US ships being flagged under the flag of another country to avoid paying US taxes and being subject to US safety inspections, etc. Two, it encourages other countries to do likewise for their own commercial shipping. Three, it's good target practice for the Marines. We like to shoot things and blow stuff up and we're pretty good at it.

End of problem. Take six months, tops.

And by the way, we've done it before. That's where we got the song lyrics '...to the shores of Tripoli..." We hate pirates, and we love to shoot them stone cold dead. Just give the word, and the problem ends.

Hey Bill,

Yes, in that case, I'd agree, the problem would be easier. I was referring to just policing the waters. Thats akin to someone complaining because people speed on their street, and asking why a cop isn't there. They forget that the cops can't be everywhere. Actually, I'm surprised, given the fact that these scumbag pirates have so many ships and people hostage, that shipping companies havent done what you suggested.

 

[MJS]

Up until recently, Somali pirates weren't much of threat to yachting. THe SOuth CHina and Sulu seas were another story: back in the 70's, those guys were preying on Vietnamese boat people.....one of those kids doing a circumnavigation in the last coupla years encountered pirates in the Indian Ocean, and stood on deck brandishing a revolver. They left him alone, probably mostly due to the fact that his vessel was smallish, and he probably looked poor, but even a minor show of force might have made them decide he wasn't worth the trouble....

....the larger carriers are starting employ the sort of tactics I've spoken of, and now can have a large, armed security detail supplied by a military contractor like Xe, well trained for such an eventuality. If you're a pirate, you don't know how they're equipped, so why take the chance? The yacht thing is a relatively new iteration-they'd done it before for ransom, but not as often as seizing cargo vessels, which were more predictably lucrative.

And thats what I dont understand. I can see them hijacking a large ship, as the ramson will be large. But a smaller boat? Do they really think that with the last 2 small boat hijackings that they did, that they'd actually get the sum of money that they'd get for a huge vessle?

 

[elder999]

And thats what I dont understand. I can see them hijacking a large ship, as the ramson will be large. But a smaller boat? Do they really think that with the last 2 small boat hijackings that they did, that they'd actually get the sum of money that they'd get for a huge vessle?

Think of it as a kidnapping at sea, and they get a ransom from the families. It's worked before......

 

[granfire]

And thats what I dont understand. I can see them hijacking a large ship, as the ramson will be large. But a smaller boat? Do they really think that with the last 2 small boat hijackings that they did, that they'd actually get the sum of money that they'd get for a huge vessle?

I think the risks involved the smaller vessels could be of greater profit. Usually their cargo is not as easily replaced (cynicism, I know) and not usually of the poor....

considering how long this has been going on and how recently it made the headlines, it makes you wonder though.

Maybe there is a new enemy to be found yet, after all the old ones are fading away...

 

[Bill Mattocks]

And thats what I dont understand. I can see them hijacking a large ship, as the ramson will be large. But a smaller boat? Do they really think that with the last 2 small boat hijackings that they did, that they'd actually get the sum of money that they'd get for a huge vessle?

The ship owners won't pay for a ship - that's what insurance is for. Sink the damned thing, we'll buy another one with the insurance money. It's the human lives that are being ransomed. The companies involved have two things - deep pockets and a legal (and ethical, if it comes to that) liability to protect the lives of their employees.

With the smaller vessels, it's the same as kidnappings in Central America; they ask the families to pony up, with the idea being that people who have the money to cruise around on private yachts have some ducats available.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Hey Bill,

Yes, in that case, I'd agree, the problem would be easier. I was referring to just policing the waters. Thats akin to someone complaining because people speed on their street, and asking why a cop isn't there. They forget that the cops can't be everywhere. Actually, I'm surprised, given the fact that these scumbag pirates have so many ships and people hostage, that shipping companies havent done what you suggested.

Absolutely agreed.

In the USA in the 1920's, there was a problem with the US mail; specifically, that it was being stolen. The argument was that you can't police every rail station to stop the crooks.

No...but you could put a detail of US Marines on every train that carried mail and shoot mail thieves dead, which is what we did.

http://www.therailroadpolice.com/history.htm#UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS MAIL GUARDS

All we have ever asked of our country is to be allowed to do what we do best. We win battles, we protect our nation.

"You must be brave, as you always are. You must be constantly alert. You must, when on guard duty, keep your weapons in hand and, attacked, shoot and shoot to kill. There is no compromise in this battle with the bandits." To The Men of the Mail Guard, Edwin Denby, 11 November 1921.

The Marine action was no token show. Nor was it a small scale operation. The Marines were serious, heavily armed, and in a high state of readiness. The original contingent consisted of 53 officers and 2,200 enlisted men dispatched throughout the country. Post office robberies stopped immediately. No one wished to face armed, ready Marines. The first Marine guard action ended in March 1922.

Experience gained in this exercise served veteran Marines well in 1926, when events again called for serious action when a mailtruck driver was brutally murdered in Elizabeth, N.J. President Calvin Coolidge issued an executive order calling for Marines to once again ride the rails and protect the post office. General Smedley Butler, a respected combat Marine, Congressional Medal of Honor holder, and veteran of World War I and various South American guerrilla wars, commanded the Western Mail Guards. Primarily he utilized the 4th Marines, which he spread through 11 states and part of Texas. These Marines soon became familiar sights on mail trucks and trains in the West. Obviously, they were a sobering influence on the criminal element. During the tenure of the Marines as mail guards only one robbery attempt was made -- on an empty, unguarded train!

We're also more at home on sea than land. We'd love to add some pirate flags to our battle streamers.

 

[elder999]

With the smaller vessels, it's the same as kidnappings in Central America; they ask the families to pony up, with the idea being that people who have the money to cruise around on private yachts have some ducats available.

And while this often true, it's true just as often that the people on the yacht have made a "lifestyle" change, and don't really have all that many sheckels at all......