Originator of the Kenpo Forms?

[IWishToLearn]

How many were created directly by SGM Parker and which other ones were modified or created by someone else under Parker's direction?

The only one I can speak to knowledge of is the Staff set developed by GM Sullivan. What about the rest of them?

 

[Doc]

How many were created directly by SGM Parker and which other ones were modified or created by someone else under Parker's direction?

The only one I can speak to knowledge of is the Staff set developed by GM Sullivan. What about the rest of them?

All of the forms are a product of Ed Parker, including the Staff Set. Although various individuals had varying degress of influence on Parker, the final product was always a direct result of what, and how he wanted it.

 

[still learning]

Hello, I am not familar with Parker forms, just some Karate forms and our own Kempo forms our Professor taughts us.

If you read about history of many of the past teachers of the martial arts, many things/ideas were pass down and change many times. Mr Ed Parker was no different. He too had learn some older Kata's/Forms, and made some changes and new forms.

It is nice to know the history and Originator of forms, but times change and ways of doing things modern also change. Every year someone discover a new way to teach athlete's to improve faster,better and so on.

One day someone will find Kata's and learning Forms will be a thing of the past. A new way to learn fighting skills will be develop.

Why did the Russians and East Germans win so many Gold medal before? They had a way of teaching their athlete's a better way to learn. Today everyone now knows' these new technique's. I don't know why most Martial Art teachers don't use these technique's. Tai Kwon do Olympic teams do? Maybe because they don't know about them.........?

We learn from the person above us who also learn from someone above him. So new ideas are sometimes never discover?

Don't get hang-up on forms....as you get older you will understand why?
...............Just my thoughts .........Aloha

 

[Zoran]

I believe many of the forms were created/started originally by a student or someone else. The final product was Ed Parker's.

I personally don't know enough about EPAK forms to say how many Mr. Parker created from start to finish himself. I can say that many of the first forms was created by Jimmy Woo originally, a Kung Fu specialist. Heowever, Mr. Parker changed those to the point that they are not the same.

We had a visitor from Australia who started in Kenpo in 1964 in Ireland. I video taped the forms he learned then. He had 7. He called them Forms 1 thru 6 and block set. Block Set and Form 1 looked similar to Short Forms 1 and 2. Those 7 Forms were what the original forms were in 1962 (when McSweeney left for Ireland and taght them). Probably what Jimmy Woo originally created for Parker's system.

One of these days I'll try to get a video of EPAK forms and try to cross reference them. It would be interesting to see the changes.

 

[John Bishop]

Hello,
Why did the Russians and East Germans win so many Gold medal before? They had a way of teaching their athlete's a better way to learn. Today everyone now knows' these new technique's. I don't know why most Martial Art teachers don't use these technique's. Tai Kwon do Olympic teams do? Maybe because they don't know about them.........?

Not a real good example. After the breakup of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, many truths about their athletic training were exposed. The main one was their constant research, improvement, and use of performance enhancing drugs. They were masters at using and designing drugs that would not be detected in normal drug testing.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Not a real good example. After the breakup of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, many truths about their athletic training were exposed. The main one was their constant research, improvement, and use of performance enhancing drugs. They were masters at using and designing drugs that would not be detected in normal drug testing.

I'm sure that many of the "special techs" are a cover story and now people are out making a buck on the cover story.
Sean

 

[jazkiljok]

Not a real good example. After the breakup of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, many truths about their athletic training were exposed. The main one was their constant research, improvement, and use of performance enhancing drugs. They were masters at using and designing drugs that would not be detected in normal drug testing.

exactly, also being an amateur in a communist country meant a full time job with full state support and no other distractions. communism also allowed for "mature" athletes to compete in many sports because they didn't have the opportunity to go pro (as we saw after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the subsequent break up of the Soviet Union), which played to their advantage over competing "western" nations during that era.

 

[Hand Sword]

Jimmy Woo! You can't create something if it already existed. It's Like saying Columbus discovered America, when there were people here already. Parker tinkered with things, but, He got them from Mr. Woo.

 

[Doc]

I believe many of the forms were created/started originally by a student or someone else. The final product was Ed Parker's.

I personally don't know enough about EPAK forms to say how many Mr. Parker created from start to finish himself. I can say that many of the first forms was created by Jimmy Woo originally, a Kung Fu specialist. Heowever, Mr. Parker changed those to the point that they are not the same.

We had a visitor from Australia who started in Kenpo in 1964 in Ireland. I video taped the forms he learned then. He had 7. He called them Forms 1 thru 6 and block set. Block Set and Form 1 looked similar to Short Forms 1 and 2. Those 7 Forms were what the original forms were in 1962 (when McSweeney left for Ireland and taght them). Probably what Jimmy Woo originally created for Parker's system.

One of these days I'll try to get a video of EPAK forms and try to cross reference them. It would be interesting to see the changes.

Although many contributed, the greatest influence on Parker after he came to the mainland were Ark Wong and Haumea Lefiti. Ultimately he discarded much of the information he received from anyone else, but retained his roots from Ark Yuey Wong and senior student "Tiny" Lefiti.

 

[green meanie]

Jimmy Woo! You can't create something if it already existed. It's Like saying Columbus discovered America, when there were people here already. Parker tinkered with things, but, He got them from Mr. Woo.

That's what I've heard/read too; that the forms were created as a result of Jimmy Woo and Ed Parker putting their heads together. Is there anyone here who can verify this?

 

[Kenpodoc]

Several years ago David German had ads in BB magazine stating he had developed Form 4. I've never seen that confirmed and personally have my doubts.

Jeff

 

[Doc]

That's what I've heard/read too; that the forms were created as a result of Jimmy Woo and Ed Parker putting their heads together. Is there anyone here who can verify this?

The great misunderstanding here is based on the fact that Jimmy Woo had the greatest initial impact on Parker's exposure to the Chinese Arts. Jimmy Woo brought the original Two-Man Set, along with the Tiger and Crane form intact from Hug Gar, and contributed greatly to Parker's changing perspective at the time, and was the greatest contributor to Parker's second book, "Secret's of Chinese Karate."

But it is also well known that Jimmy Woo and Parker parted ways just before the book was published in 1963. What is not genrally known is that Jimmy Woo was a consistent participant at Ark Wong's Self-Defense Kwoon as well where Parker was, and much of the material came from that influence.

By the time Parker chose to Americanize his Chinese Kenpo into his own art, he borrowed a great deal of information from multiple sources (as everyone else did) but never used anything that already existed intact. The suggestion that he didn't create anything because it already existed is to say there have been no advances in television since they have existed since the early part of the 20th century. No, Ed Parker did not invent forms or sets, but his approach to everything he did was uniquely his perspective, and always carried his signature, good or bad.

Since the passing of Ed Paker, many have layed claim to creating parts of his material. Claims that didn't exist when he was alive. Jimmy Woo although an actual contributor and influence in many ways, to his credit has never claimed anything. Other than that, most of those who have contributed, did so to his commercial material and enhanced the business aspect of his teachings, while he kept his personal art under close scrutiny.

 

[Zoran]

Doc, thanks for the info.

I've create a page for Mr. Wong at Martial Talk's MartialPedia (click here to see the page). Anyone that has more info on him, please feel free to add on or adjust.

 

[Hand Sword]

The suggestion that he didn't create anything because it already existed is to say there have been no advances in television since they have existed since the early part of the 20th century.

It's still a valid point. Even the tv thing applies. The changes came about on the shoulders of what was already. That doesn't make it "new". Same with this topic. Mr. Parker was not the "Originator" of the Kenpo forms. Others gave him something and he tailored that to his liking. He's a "borrower" as you admit, not the "originator". Just a terminology thing.