Opinion needed on a fighting system

[dcsma]

Just curious here and to see what everyone has to say from experience or not on the Tony Blauers S.P.E.A.R. system?? Worth the $200 for a 8 hour seminar?

 

[Buka]

I think you'll learn a lot. You might get more out of it if you're Law Enforcement, Military, a trainer or teaching Martial Arts or self defense, than you would if you're not.

If you can afford it, what the heck? Thing about seminars is you get more out of some than out of others, not necessarily due to the qualifications of the instructors, but by both how well they teach and how well it blends with what you do. But take good notes, and go over them over the following weeks, sometimes there's a lot of stuff you forget....especially if you don't write it down.

Get sleep the night before and bring good food and water, eight hour seminars can put your mind to sleep come the afternoon.

 

[MaMaD]

and after that share with us that notes u wrote

 

[hoshin1600]

I am going to agree with Buka. Whether you get something good out of the seminar has more to do with you then with the presenter. Tony has some good stuff but....is it what you want? Why are you interested in working with him ? Are you familiar with what he does? I would suggest watching all his youtube stuff and decide if it is something you really need to know more about.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I am going to agree with Buka. Whether you get something good out of the seminar has more to do with you then with the presenter. Tony has some good stuff but....is it what you want? Why are you interested in working with him ? Are you familiar with what he does? I would suggest watching all his youtube stuff and decide if it is something you really need to know more about.

Yes, and it has a lot to do with where you are and what you need in that moment. I tend to get more out of seminars now than I did 20 years ago, but I don't get my best benefits from the same kinds of seminars now.

 

[dcsma]

Ok thank you for the input. There is a lady who is teaching the system in the area and only has a year an half experience in the system. Always looking for added knowledge but the lack of experience was concerning

 

[JowGaWolf]

Don't do it lol...
Here's the deal about 8 hour seminars. Can you learn your system in 8 hours? in a year? If not then don't expect this seminar to make you a warrior I find that self-defense seminars that show cases these techniques are best suited for someone who is already training in some kind of martial art, which is why gpseymour gets more out of these seminars now than he did 20 years ago.

In short seminars like this are more of an applications seminar where someone says here's the technique and here's how to apply it in a possible real life scenario. For example: The stuff that he shows here are things that are taught by default in Kung Fu

The only difference between what he is teaching and what is taught in martial arts is that a strong parry to his guard will screw up his day. The concept of hand placement as a way to encourage your opponent to do a certain attack is nothing new. If you notice he says that if you try to spar with this then you'll get your butt kick.

This has kung fu written all over it. I would have been the smart *** who would have put my hand only an inch from the medicine ball and blast it out of his grip. lol.

Martial Arts already incorporate this concept in the forms, techniques, and combinations

A lot of the things he's going to go over are things that you are probably already training in your school, the only difference is that you are going to see the application version of some of the techniques that are found in Martial Arts. Some of them you'll be able to do and some of them you won't be able to do because you don't have the understanding of how to properly drive the power for the technique.

There is a lady who is teaching the system in the area and only has a year an half experience in the system.

If this is all she knows then I definitely wouldn't take it. If she has extensive training in other martial arts then you may be able to get enough out of it to piece things together a higher understanding of it. Sometimes all you need is a hint to get you thinking in the right direction. If she has a really strong martial art background including application then it will be worth the the $200 assuming that this amount means that you can also ask deeper questions.

My personal opinion is that you probably can learn a lot of what he teaches just by connecting with other instructors and Sifu's out there. You'll get more than 8 hours worth of information and you'll build reliable networks of friends that will be more than happen to share application knowledge with you.

 

[Paul_D]

I know nothing of the system, so won't comment on it's functionality, but I would question what's really motivating someone charging $200 for a seminar.

 

[Flying Crane]

Ok thank you for the input. There is a lady who is teaching the system in the area and only has a year an half experience in the system. Always looking for added knowledge but the lack of experience was concerning

I would not pay money to take a seminar from someone who only has a year and a half experience with the method.

I'm not a fan of seminars anyway, but this would definitely be one to stay away from, in my opinion.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I would not pay money to take a seminar from someone who only has a year and a half experience with the method.

I'm not a fan of seminars anyway, but this would definitely be one to stay away from, in my opinion.

I took the question to be regarding a seminar with Tony Blauer himself, not the local teacher who has minimal experience.

If it's with Blauer, then it might be worthwhile. If it's with an instructor who only has 1.5 years experience then definitely not.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I know nothing of the system, so won't comment on it's functionality, but I would question what's really motivating someone charging $200 for a seminar.

It's a little steep, but if it's really 8 hours (spread over a couple of days, I would imagine), then it's not too out of line with what many people on the seminar circuit are charging.

 

[drop bear]

It's a little steep, but if it's really 8 hours (spread over a couple of days, I would imagine), then it's not too out of line with what many people on the seminar circuit are charging.

For anything.
You get a two day first aid course for $200

My issue is i want to be taught something new. Which i generally dont get from a sd work shop.

And would rather a technical expert.

 

[Juany118]

Don't do it lol...
Here's the deal about 8 hour seminars. Can you learn your system in 8 hours? in a year? If not then don't expect this seminar to make you a warrior I find that self-defense seminars that show cases these techniques are best suited for someone who is already training in some kind of martial art, which is why gpseymour gets more out of these seminars now than he did 20 years ago.

In short seminars like this are more of an applications seminar where someone says here's the technique and here's how to apply it in a possible real life scenario. For example: The stuff that he shows here are things that are taught by default in Kung Fu

The only difference between what he is teaching and what is taught in martial arts is that a strong parry to his guard will screw up his day. The concept of hand placement as a way to encourage your opponent to do a certain attack is nothing new. If you notice he says that if you try to spar with this then you'll get your butt kick.

This has kung fu written all over it. I would have been the smart *** who would have put my hand only an inch from the medicine ball and blast it out of his grip. lol.

Martial Arts already incorporate this concept in the forms, techniques, and combinations

A lot of the things he's going to go over are things that you are probably already training in your school, the only difference is that you are going to see the application version of some of the techniques that are found in Martial Arts. Some of them you'll be able to do and some of them you won't be able to do because you don't have the understanding of how to properly drive the power for the technique.

If this is all she knows then I definitely wouldn't take it. If she has extensive training in other martial arts then you may be able to get enough out of it to piece things together a higher understanding of it. Sometimes all you need is a hint to get you thinking in the right direction. If she has a really strong martial art background including application then it will be worth the the $200 assuming that this amount means that you can also ask deeper questions.

My personal opinion is that you probably can learn a lot of what he teaches just by connecting with other instructors and Sifu's out there. You'll get more than 8 hours worth of information and you'll build reliable networks of friends that will be more than happen to share application knowledge with you.

The thing with Seminars like this though, and the videos you show don't real show it, is that it goes a lot deeper into tactics. It also incorporates natural reactions etc. The following video is the first in a series that go into precontract cues, exploiting natural reactions vs fighting them etc which most martial arts don't really get into that much. The later we can say "okay, that works if you aren't practicing martial arts daily" but the precontract cues and the like are vital.

 

[Red Sun]

Hmm. If i google "human flinch response", i dont see any that resemble my flinch response.

Lean away > Head turns to almost look behind me > Left hand reaches for their face > The back of my right hand is on my left jaw hinge > I rush forward and usually end up with a headlock and an overhook, or right forearm pressing into face/throat if theres a height difference.

This happens alot.

Is there a 'weaponized' version of this in Blauers material?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I know nothing of the system, so won't comment on it's functionality, but I would question what's really motivating someone charging $200 for a seminar.

It's $200 for 8 hours. Usually at costs like that the people attending have some kind of background in self-defense and this is would be a deeper look. Most martial arts that train for self-defense give a deeper look into the techniques as the student progresses. From the instructors that I've met, they are more than happy to provide deeper knowledge to a student who really has a passion for the system or a similar system.

The thing with Seminars like this though, and the videos you show don't real show it, is that it goes a lot deeper into tactics. It also incorporates natural reactions etc. The following video is the first in a series that go into precontract cues, exploiting natural reactions vs fighting them etc which most martial arts don't really get into that much. The later we can say "okay, that works if you aren't practicing martial arts daily" but the precontract cues and the like are vital.

Here are things that I'm not impressed with.

1. Aiming for nerve clusters (0:10) - The deal with nerve clusters is that you don't really aim for them. The technique is what gets you there. All of that repetitive drilling and correct arm position that martial arts students is what makes it possible to hit the nerve clusters that he is talking about. You may not hit the nerve on the first try, but if the technique is correct then your worst case scenario is that you'll block the punch. From there it becomes a game of chance and considering that you are using the same blocking technique for, say a jab, then your chances of hitting that nerve cluster increases with each punch you block. It doesn't matter if you block a left punch or a right punch the technique plus conditioning will get you there. As far as nerve clusters in the arm, those are easy to reach. There is one on the top and one the bottom.

2. The flinch mechanism (0:38) that he speaks of is old news. Martial arts already utilizes flinch movements. For example, the parry is a natural flinch movement. What do you naturally do if there is a bug flying around your face?

Here's better view of that natural parry. Guess how I teach my 5 year old student how to parry? I tell her to swat the fly.

3. Unconscious Reaction Vs. Conscious reaction - It is probably more accurate to say subconscious. If you are unconscious then you aren't responding to anything. The body is always aware provided that we aren't having a day dreaming spell or some type of tunneled focus. This is how we are able to catch things out of the corner of our eye even though we aren't actively making an effort to look for it.

4: Complex motor skill vs Primal motor skill (1:58) - Both require a timing range for success, don't let anyone fool you about that. If he's late throwing up his guard he still gets hit. This is where multiple techniques of blocking come into play. If you see that you are late in using one type of block then your knowledge of techniques will fire off a different type of block or motion that will help you get out of the way. If you notice his block still was exact timing. He got his hands up for the block at the same time the punch was coming in. As far as you knowing which punch is coming at you. You actually have the ability to encourage your attacker to throw certain punches. When you are able to do this then it doesn't become such a guessing game any more because you know what direction most of the punches are going to come from. This is also covered in every martial arts via stance training, one step partner drills, and sparring.

5. Action vs Reaction (4:00) - Action is not always faster than Reaction. Visual training and learning how to use peripheral vision will allow your reaction to be faster than a person's action. Peripheral vision is a natural motion detection that makes it possible to see a punch before it is actually thrown. This is also covered in Martial Arts as well. For example, he states that if he sees you starting to throw a punch then it will start the flinch. If I see you throw a punch then it's going to initiate a trained response of my choosing.

6. When a police officer walks up to someone he should maintain the necessary distance to provide maximum reaction time. Walking up to someone and getting into someone's face the way he did reduces your reaction time, unless you are the person that will be initiating the attack. If you have no plans to initiate an attack then the distance needs to be far enough to make a sucker punch attack more difficult.

 

[Juany118]

It's $200 for 8 hours. Usually at costs like that the people attending have some kind of background in self-defense and this is would be a deeper look. Most martial arts that train for self-defense give a deeper look into the techniques as the student progresses. From the instructors that I've met, they are more than happy to provide deeper knowledge to a student who really has a passion for the system or a similar system.

Here are things that I'm not impressed with.

1. Aiming for nerve clusters (0:10) - The deal with nerve clusters is that you don't really aim for them. The technique is what gets you there. All of that repetitive drilling and correct arm position that martial arts students is what makes it possible to hit the nerve clusters that he is talking about. You may not hit the nerve on the first try, but if the technique is correct then your worst case scenario is that you'll block the punch. From there it becomes a game of chance and considering that you are using the same blocking technique for, say a jab, then your chances of hitting that nerve cluster increases with each punch you block. It doesn't matter if you block a left punch or a right punch the technique plus conditioning will get you there. As far as nerve clusters in the arm, those are easy to reach. There is one on the top and one the bottom.

2. The flinch mechanism (0:38) that he speaks of is old news. Martial arts already utilizes flinch movements. For example, the parry is a natural flinch movement. What do you naturally do if there is a bug flying around your face?

Here's better view of that natural parry. Guess how I teach my 5 year old student how to parry? I tell her to swat the fly.

3. Unconscious Reaction Vs. Conscious reaction - It is probably more accurate to say subconscious. If you are unconscious then you aren't responding to anything. The body is always aware provided that we aren't having a day dreaming spell or some type of tunneled focus. This is how we are able to catch things out of the corner of our eye even though we aren't actively making an effort to look for it.

4: Complex motor skill vs Primal motor skill (1:58) - Both require a timing range for success, don't let anyone fool you about that. If he's late throwing up his guard he still gets hit. This is where multiple techniques of blocking come into play. If you see that you are late in using one type of block then your knowledge of techniques will fire off a different type of block or motion that will help you get out of the way. If you notice his block still was exact timing. He got his hands up for the block at the same time the punch was coming in. As far as you knowing which punch is coming at you. You actually have the ability to encourage your attacker to throw certain punches. When you are able to do this then it doesn't become such a guessing game any more because you know what direction most of the punches are going to come from. This is also covered in every martial arts via stance training, one step partner drills, and sparring.

5. Action vs Reaction (4:00) - Action is not always faster than Reaction. Visual training and learning how to use peripheral vision will allow your reaction to be faster than a person's action. Peripheral vision is a natural motion detection that makes it possible to see a punch before it is actually thrown. This is also covered in Martial Arts as well. For example, he states that if he sees you starting to throw a punch then it will start the flinch. If I see you throw a punch then it's going to initiate a trained response of my choosing.

6. When a police officer walks up to someone he should maintain the necessary distance to provide maximum reaction time. Walking up to someone and getting into someone's face the way he did reduces your reaction time, unless you are the person that will be initiating the attack. If you have no plans to initiate an attack then the distance needs to be far enough to make a sucker punch attack more difficult.

Don't mean to sound like an *** but I will start with the last. I have done that job for almost 19 years so I can attest to something. I have one of two choices. Demand everyone I deal with stay at a minimum 20 feet away or deal with each situation on their initial impression and adapt. S.P.E.A.R is about the later.

For 5, again you are projecting. You an I study martial arts this system is for those who don't. Maybe you don't know this... I have been a police officer since before this century. Do you want to know how many times, after I left the academy, I have had actual hand to hand training as part of the job? Once. Add in baton training 9. Total hours each time? 2 max.

I think you are looking at the system from a martial artist's stand point that is wrong. SPEAR is designed for someone to be able to deal with the the violence in the world who aren't martial artists, both attacker and defender, you and I are a SMALL minority my friend. Would I replace SPEAR with my training? Hell no but that doesn't say it won't work for 99% of the encounters most people will bump into on the street either.

Ignoring all of the above however I have yet to study in a MA school that sits us down and talks about how real fights actually start, the cues we need to look for etc. I learned them, sometimes the hardway, and these are the most important in self defense as a civilian because if you read them right you don't need to say "oh **** it's on" like I need to on "the clock" you can say "oh ****, RUN" which I will do if not in my town or on the clock (sorry going home to family in my number one job).

Its the non physical dynamics that make the system really valuable though. The training on body language, how to go from "jack in the box" to fight when you thought everything was fine. This is how real world fights work and in all my years I have yet to walk into a MA school that teaches this skill set. If you teach that set sir, I wish you were in my State, that is genuine btw, not sarcasm.

 

[Buka]

I took the question to be regarding a seminar with Tony Blauer himself, not the local teacher who has minimal experience.

If it's with Blauer, then it might be worthwhile. If it's with an instructor who only has 1.5 years experience then definitely not.

That's how I took it as well.

As for any thoughts concerning police work, you need to work that job to really have any idea.

I look at seminars the same way I look at movie trailers. I know that sounds odd, but I do. If I like the trailer, I'll probably go see the movie. If I like the seminar, find it useful, I'll probably do a more in depth study of what it concerns.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Yeah, I took it that Tony Blauer was teaching the seminar myself.

$200 is steep for any seminar and an eight hour seminar is sure to burn you out after a couple of hours. However, if it is taught over a couple of days then two, four hour seminars might be good. All depends on how good the teacher is with the material.

 

[Paul_D]

It's a little steep, but if it's really 8 hours (spread over a couple of days, I would imagine), then it's not too out of line with what many people on the seminar circuit are charging.

I'd want lunch too for that much

 

[hoshin1600]

The bottom line is he charges what people are willing to pay. I remember reading Bruce Lee would charge $2000. an hour.
If you don't like the price or the value you get for the money, ,move along.