Open weight matches in MMA

[Jason Norin]

Does anyone miss the open weight matches in MMA? I do. And I would love to see if the fighter in today's generation can still perform the same way as the pioneers of MMA did back then. I'd love to see if smaller fighters can still beat bigger fighters given that MMA has already evolved a lot. And I'd love to know what body size is considered to be the most effective in terms of MMA fighting.

 

[Transk53]

Does anyone miss the open weight matches in MMA? I do. And I would love to see if the fighter in today's generation can still perform the same way as the pioneers of MMA did back then. I'd love to see if smaller fighters can still beat bigger fighters given that MMA has already evolved a lot. And I'd love to know what body size is considered to be the most effective in terms of MMA fighting.

A bit like the Brendan Conlon Vs Koba kind of thing?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The reason that open weight matches could work back in the day is that you had some huge mismatches in terms of skill and knowledge and experience in what actually is effective in that environment. Put a 180 pound submission expert against a 250 brawler who has never even seen an armbar or triangle choke, and you have a contest.

These days, it is different. There are no secrets. Everyone knows all the techniques and the relevant disciplines. Furthermore, there is a circuit of amateur promotions giving fighters the experience they need before they turn pro. Nowadays the only way to get the sort of skill mismatch that would allow a welterweight to beat a heavyweight would be to pull an inexperienced heavyweight from the amateur ranks and throw him up against a UFC welterweight contender.

 

[Andrew Green]

Those sorts of matches don't do the sport any good at all. Japan kept doing them longer then North America, but they where not about sport, just entertainment. It was basically matching a big guy that didn't know what he was doing against a smaller guy that did.

That's never going to happen again in any respectable organization. You can't put two guys who are both elite level fighters but vastly different weight classes in the same ring.

There is a market for those sorts of fights I suppose, but it's not about high level competition.

The original UFC events had one goal, promote BJJ. That's why they where set up the way they where. It was to showcase that BJJ was capable of beating larger, stronger fighters that didn't know how to fight on the ground. It did that very well, but now everyone that is fighting knows how to fight standing and on the ground, we also have a legitimate sport instead of the exhibition that got itself banned just about everywhere and taken off of PPV.

 

[Steve]

What I miss is the spectacle and surprise that came from the early UFCs and continued in Pride. The pure stylists fighting each other. Size and experience becomes a bit dangerous. Doesn't matter how big you are, if you are incompetent, you're putting yourself at unnecessary risk. I dont enjoy seeing people get hurt. But I do enjoy seeing contests of skill that are unorthodox.

 

[Andrew Green]

What I miss is the spectacle and surprise that came from the early UFCs and continued in Pride. The pure stylists fighting each other. Size and experience becomes a bit dangerous. Doesn't matter how big you are, if you are incompetent, you're putting yourself at unnecessary risk. I dont enjoy seeing people get hurt. But I do enjoy seeing contests of skill that are unorthodox.

Which are done... not going to happen again. We did the experiment, figured out what worked and now everyone that competes trains to do those things that are effective. To take a "pure" karate guy and a "pure" wrestler and through them in a MMA cage now would never happen. If either of them where looking to be competitors they'd put themselves in a MMA gym. You'd have to be stupid to jump into MMA without studying what has worked for fighters in the past, and anyone that tried would never make it out of the amateurs.

If you want unpredictable fights go watch some local shows with 0-0 fighters, they resemble the early UFC more then watching PPV events.

 

[Steve]

As I was reading the first paragraph, my first reaction was essentially what you wrote in your second paragraph. There are plenty of fights where relatively pure stylists take each other on, but they are solely in the amateur ranks now. I don't know about your area, but the schools and promotions around here won't let someone take a pro fight until they have some amateur fights behind them, and by that time they're at least somewhat well rounded, if not very experienced.

 

[drop bear]

What I miss is the spectacle and surprise that came from the early UFCs and continued in Pride. The pure stylists fighting each other. Size and experience becomes a bit dangerous. Doesn't matter how big you are, if you are incompetent, you're putting yourself at unnecessary risk. I dont enjoy seeing people get hurt. But I do enjoy seeing contests of skill that are unorthodox.

c class. And also the best opportunity to see if your art holds up.

 

[Jason Norin]

I guess the closest thing we can get is a UFC superfight but it's more like a catchweight match for me. Anyone know if the Silva-GSP fight will push through?

 

[Andrew Green]

I guess the closest thing we can get is a UFC superfight but it's more like a catchweight match for me. Anyone know if the Silva-GSP fight will push through?

With Silva most likely facing a suspension for steroids I wouldn't hold your breath.

 

[Jason Norin]

That's a bummer.. As far as suspension due to positive drug tests is concerned, I just hope everyone who testes positive would get it.. not selective justice.

 

[Andrew Green]

That's a bummer.. As far as suspension due to positive drug tests is concerned, I just hope everyone who testes positive would get it.. not selective justice.

I don't think anyone has gotten a free pass after testing positive for steroids.

 

[Jason Norin]

what about Jon bones Jones?

 

[Andrew Green]

what about Jon bones Jones?

Cocaine is not steroids. There are lots of drugs which you are not allowed to use while in competition, and others which you are not allowed to use at anytime if you are a competitor. Any punishment to him would have had to have come from the UFC under a code of conduct violation or something of that sort, not a suspension from the state athletic commission.

Jones got caught for cocaine outside of competition. While there are ethical issues and it is a illegal drug as far as the legal system is concerned it is not a drug that is illegal as far as the athletic commission is concerned while not in competition. Same as pain killers and a ton of other over the counter and prescription drugs. Things that can be used, just not while in competition. I'm pretty sure if you drink too much coffee before a fight you'll get reprimanded for caffeine in your system. Do it outside a fight and no one cares.

 

[Transk53]

Silva getting done for steroids. Not sure if that is a surprise or not considering the leg break. Mind you he is pushing 40 so I guess the nose dive would be dramatic.

 

[FriedRice]

The original UFC events had one goal, promote BJJ. That's why they where set up the way they where. It was to showcase that BJJ was capable of beating larger, stronger fighters that didn't know how to fight on the ground. It did that very well, but now everyone that is fighting knows how to fight standing and on the ground, we also have a legitimate sport instead of the exhibition that got itself banned just about everywhere and taken off of PPV.

You're almost making it sound like the Gracies rigged it. It was a legit tournament.

Early UFC's were about pitting different styles against each other to see which one was the best and which are mostly BS. Yes, the UFC was partly ran by Rorion Gracie, but the Gracies stood the same chances of losing to the other style(s) of MA just the same. If any other styles dominated like Gracies did, of course they were going to make the big $$$ and boast their style for worldwide recognition, just like the Gracie did with their BJJ.

Royce Gracie fought many who were his size also, and not just bigger fighters. Come to think of it, most were around his size and slightly bigger in the quarter finals. But isn't it pretty damn impressive to chose to fight someone much bigger and take such high risks to prove the point that BJJ is supreme? They chose Royce because he was small and wiry. Rickson was the real beast of Helio's lineage. For the Gracies to pick the smaller and weaker, Royce to represent them with such risks just to make a point, well I think they deserve all of that glory and more for their style.

 

[Drose427]

You're almost making it sound like the Gracies rigged it. It was a legit tournament.

Early UFC's were about pitting different styles against each other to see which one was the best and which are mostly BS. Yes, the UFC was partly ran by Rorion Gracie, but the Gracies stood the same chances of losing to the other style(s) of MA just the same. If any other styles dominated like Gracies did, of course they were going to make the big $$$ and boast their style for worldwide recognition, just like the Gracie did with their BJJ.

Royce Gracie fought many who were his size also, and not just bigger fighters. Come to think of it, most were around his size and slightly bigger in the quarter finals. But isn't it pretty damn impressive to chose to fight someone much bigger and take such high risks to prove the point that BJJ is supreme? They chose Royce because he was small and wiry. Rickson was the real beast of Helio's lineage. For the Gracies to pick the smaller and weaker, Royce to represent them with such risks just to make a point, well I think they deserve all of that glory and more for their style.

You realize the gracies screened challengers right? There was one fighter (rich Franklin I think but someone correct me if I'm wrong) who they had issues with wanting to fight because he was a wrestler.

Now if they did this during the Gracie challenge, odds are they tried to screen cards in the early days of UFC when graces still had a say...

You can deny it if you want, but we'be had a lot of BJJ guys on this forum say the same thing as Andrew.

 

[Drose427]

OP,

Now that MMA a legitimate sport, I don't think it'd help at all. It just hurts the publics viewing opinion. They'll say, "well that's hardly fair!"

personally, I would love for gyms to make it a standard part of their workout. If folks wanna train for SD it's important to learn how to handle folks considerably larger than you. Plus, it's one hell of a workout. we did it in wrestling when I was in high school. When you're wrestling 132, 195 pounders are HEAVY

 

[Danny T]

You're almost making it sound like the Gracies rigged it. It was a legit tournament.

The first UFC contestants were picked specifically for what kind of fighters they were. The only concern they had was Ken Shamrock due to his high school wrestling and pro wrestling background. What they did have on him was he was fighting 4 days prior in Japan then traveling to the U.S. He would be dealing with jet lag as well. So no they didn't 'rig' but they were very selective as to who would be in the tournament.

 

[drop bear]

OP,

Now that MMA a legitimate sport, I don't think it'd help at all. It just hurts the publics viewing opinion. They'll say, "well that's hardly fair!"

personally, I would love for gyms to make it a standard part of their workout. If folks wanna train for SD it's important to learn how to handle folks considerably larger than you. Plus, it's one hell of a workout. we did it in wrestling when I was in high school. When you're wrestling 132, 195 pounders are HEAVY

At what pace though? You have a considerably bigger guy just bullying smaller guys and you have a pretty sucky training environment.

(Kramer does karate?)

I don't have the you tube look that up.