O.K...deserved to be tazered or not?

[Cruentus]

http://www.big-boys.com/articles/policetazer.html

I am saying totally deserved it. I was cheering at my computer.

Disagreements?

 

[arnisador]

Until I heard that her license was suspended, I felt it was over the line. Knowing that, I find it defensible...but question whether it was necessary.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Until I heard that her license was suspended, I felt it was over the line. Knowing that, I find it defensible...but question whether it was necessary.

If she was refusing to exit the vehicle, she could have ran off, or run over the second officer by going in reverse. The options of what could happen in that type of case are limitless. All she had to do was get out of the car or at least move towards the getting out of the car. They said she swung at the second officer. That is not good, and could get you shot let alone Taz'd.

 

[Cruentus]

Until I heard that her license was suspended, I felt it was over the line. Knowing that, I find it defensible...but question whether it was necessary.

Well, she wasn't cooperating, and the officer was going to have to use force to get her out of the car.

It begs the question...which is safer, trying to muscle her out of the vehicle, or warning her, tazing her, and getting her to comply?

I thought that she was a totally uncooperative ***...so I felt she got what she deserved...

 

[Cruentus]

If she was refusing to exit the vehicle, she could have ran off, or run over the second officer by going in reverse. The options of what could happen in that type of case are limitless. All she had to do was get out of the car or at least move towards the getting out of the car. They said she swung at the second officer. That is not good, and could get you shot let alone Taz'd.

Amen to that too, bro.

 

[dubljay]

I think tazing her was a better way. Imagine if the officer had forced her door open, and forced her out of the car... the injuries she could have sustained from a joint lock/pain compliance hold are worse than being tazed. the officer could have accidentally broken her arm trying to forcer her from the vehicle, where as the tazer the likelyhood of such injuries is lower.

 

[arnisador]

I couldn't see the swing, though I did hear them mention it--tazeing (tazing?) a person who takes a swing at an LEO is OK by me.

As to taking off, I assume the car was turned off, so it would have taken some effort to do that.

Definitely, she was an ***. As to what's better for her--I armlock people all the time. Yes, things can go wrong, but I'm not convinced it was for her good. As to the LEO protecting himself--as I say, I find that defensible.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I couldn't see the swing, though I did hear them mention it--tazeing (tazing?) a person who takes a swing at an LEO is OK by me.

As to taking off, I assume the car was turned off, so it would have taken some effort to do that.

As to starting the car, you are correct it takes effort.

But I offer from my experience, which may not be normal:

New vehicles have push button key FOB starters. Some Premium vehicles ahve push button starting, No Keys at all.

Older vehicles had what is refered to as a bump start, where fuel is dumped into the cyclinders and then spark on the one ready. This causes emission problems, hence newer vehicles do not use this, but does give nice quick start. It takes little time to drop a vehicle in drive or reverse. One of the complaints form JD Power on vehicles, is the bump of entering into Drive or Reverse right after the start is initiated. We do quick starts and bumps into gear to catch the "jerk" term for the shift. So, I guess I looked at it from my perspective and not the average person. I guess my personal biases got in the way.

 

[Tgace]

Perfectly within policy IMO. She was requested, then ordered out of the vehicle which she refused. He opened the door and tried a "softhand" on her which she resisted . She said "theyre going to arrest me" to her phone. So she knew what was going on. He then ordered her out by taser which she refused. Alledgedly swung at an officer. When someone is obviously going to resist getting dragged out, knealt on and twisted into cuffs, its time for OC/Taser etc...

 

[KenpoTex]

We had this same discussion over on Warrior-Talk. One of the things that I pointed out was that, if you listen closely to her phone conversation right before they zap her, she's giving directions to someone. She says something like "it's the next street over..." For all we know, she was trying to get someone up there to keep her from being arrested. Who knows...

I do think the officers were justified in using force, and given the alternative (physical force with all the risks entailed) I think the tazer was a good choice.

 

[Bammx2]

I stand and salute all the people who can handle being an LEO!

Personaly,I couldn't.
I would taze first then ask questions!

So this woman got off lucky and should quit complaining!

BUT,
you know some law firm is gonna jump all over that officer like white on rice!
Taze them too!

 

[Tgace]

Many times when the person stopped starts being an *** from the get-go, instead of doing the "good afternoon officer" routine, theres something wrong with the car/license or theres a warrant. I havent figured out if its an attempt to scare the officer off, getting pissed because they see the arrest coming or trying to set up some sort of complaint/suit against the officer. Or a combination thereof.

As compared to just knowing that you took your chances, got caught and should just face the music. Now she probably added a resisting (penal law) charge to what was more than likely just a traffic misdemeanor.

 

[Franc0]

Gawd, I gotta get me one of those tasers! artyon:
And yeah, she asked for it.

Franco

 

[arnisador]

Many times when the person stopped starts being an *** from the get-go, instead of doing the "good afternoon officer" routine, theres something wrong with the car/license or theres a warrant. I havent figured out if its an attempt to scare the officer off, getting pissed because they see the arrest coming or trying to set up some sort of complaint/suit against the officer. Or a combination thereof.

I assumed she was setting up a complaint or lawsuit. She couldn't possibly have thought that he'd back off because she's a problematic person to deal with--does that ever happen?

As compared to just knowing that you took your chances, got caught and should just face the music. Now she probably added a resisting (penal law) charge to what was more than likely just a traffic misdemeanor.

Maybe her license was suspended for drunk driving or something and she's a repeat offender--sometimes that means harsher penalties, no? A really long suspension, or fine, or something?

 

[oldnewbie]

Deserved.. clear-cut IMO

Did you hear her quoting law to the officer in the begining? Jeesh...
And she opened the door at the begining... big no, no...

My hat's off to all LEO's.

 

[DavidCC]

Many times when the person stopped starts being an *** from the get-go, instead of doing the "good afternoon officer" routine, theres something wrong with the car/license or theres a warrant. I havent figured out if its an attempt to scare the officer off, getting pissed because they see the arrest coming or trying to set up some sort of complaint/suit against the officer. Or a combination thereof.

As compared to just knowing that you took your chances, got caught and should just face the music. Now she probably added a resisting (penal law) charge to what was more than likely just a traffic misdemeanor.

wel, if poeple like that could use reason and planning and forethought, they wouldn't be the losers they are. "Getting pissed becasue they see the arrest coming" is probably a good description of it.

 

[Tgace]

I assumed she was setting up a complaint or lawsuit. She couldn't possibly have thought that he'd back off because she's a problematic person to deal with--does that ever happen?

No, but people think it can.

Maybe her license was suspended for drunk driving or something and she's a repeat offender--sometimes that means harsher penalties, no? A really long suspension, or fine, or something?

Unless she was drunk at the time of arrest, with a suspended license for intox. most traffic misdemeanors rarely result in jail time. Repeat drunk drivers are probably the most likely to see bars...a resisting charge however is a penal law arrest and some judges dont look favorably on them.

 

[dearnis.com]

Deserves has nothing to do with it. She took what was, all in all, a minor offence and escalated it. Once that happen she IS getting arrested. On most agencies the taser is low on the force scale, about equal with pepper spray.
The average person simply can not comprehend what jackasses many people are on traffic stops. The bottom line is that most folks did something to cause the traffic stop. And, for some reason, the ones who have revoked licenses and bench warrants tend to do the most extreme things...

 

[OULobo]

Regarless of right, wrong, justified, within policy, deserved ect., this video is going to be a nightnmare for public relations at that PD. I also wouldn't put it past being a hell of a trial if it goes to jury for excessive force. To the eyes of the trained and the educated, like many on this board, this seems easily justified, but I think the average citizen will see it as excessive.

 

[dearnis.com]

The question then becomes excessive compared to what? To cracking her with a baton? To grappling with her and dislocating a joint? To punching her?

THe problem comes down to a public perception that cops have all these wonderful star wars less lethal easy capture tools when it just aint so. The problem is compounded by the increasing tendency of otherwise normal people to resist for no apparent reason.

Honestly, I would like to see the blackjack back in vouge, but it aint gonna happen...