Northern Mantis Styles

[7starmantis]

I dont know how many mantis people we have on the board, but I thought it would be interesting to see what others thought about the differences and even similarities between northern mantis systems. There are several northern styles, what makes them different? What do they share in common?

7sm

 

[j_m]

So... how many are there and what are the different styles?



jm

 

[7starmantis]

So... how many are there and what are the different styles?



jm

Wow, sorry, somehow I just missed posting to this thread again. Lets see....

I think there are about 9, but some are questionable. I've never heard of anyone practicing some of these, so take it for what its worth. I just googled for a list of the styles, so again.....

7 Star
Plum Blossom
Six Harmony
Closed Door
Jade Ring
8 Step
Wah Lum
Tai Chi
Southern Mantis (although arguably not related to other mantis systems)

I've never known of anyone who practices Jade Ring, or six harmony.

7sm

 

[BlackCatBonz]

hey 7sm,
this might be a bit off topic, but could you explain the identifying characteristics of the mantis system that you study?
for example, do you tend to fight in close or more long range, etc.
thanks

 

[j_m]

I've never known of anyone who practices Jade Ring, or six harmony.

7sm

Very interesting. Thaks for the list. I've never heard of Jad Ring Matnis. But I have heard of Six Harmony and know several practicioners as well having seen it. It's a VERY intersting system in my opinion. My teacher's teacher knows this style and, I believe, still teaches it.



jm

 

[7starmantis]

hey 7sm,
this might be a bit off topic, but could you explain the identifying characteristics of the mantis system that you study?
for example, do you tend to fight in close or more long range, etc.
thanks

Sure, we fight very close range utilizing "jeem leem" or "sticking". The idea is to stay in contact with your opponent in order to feel his movements and yield or attack accordingly. The points of contact are basically infinite. Fingers, hand, arm, shoulder, chest, butt, hip, thigh, knee, shin, etc. We utilize whole body feel and whole body fighting. Attacks or strikes may come from a fist, elbow, shoulder, hip, foot, knee, etc. Defense is heavily based on yielding and using the opponent’s energy against them. We use a technique called "plucking" which is basically yielding to a strike, letting their energy extend or "empty", then having stayed in contact with the striking limb, you "pluck" just at the end of the extension pulling them off balance and allowing them to run into your own attack. We put heavy focus on balance, and keeping the opponent off balance and on the defensive. We utilize chin na alot and use alot of breaking. We attack the joints, elbows, shoulders, neck, knees, etc (not exclusively, but alot). You will see alot of the signature dil sou or mantis hook, basically we use a three finger grab allowing you to release quicker. The signature "mantis catches cicada" is a breaking technique using the forearm to break. 7* probably has the largest collection of groundfighting as well, using the same principles as standup fighting. You will see alot of sweeps, throws, and such using the attacker’s energy to take them down.

I will say this, my school uses much deeper stances than most 7* schools and our lineage is broader than most. By that I mean that there are a couple of schools of thought on methods and such in the 7* world, and they usually differ, but my sigung trained with several of the differing "camps" and has combined them into ours. We also have some wah lum influence, which probably accounts for our lower stances. We focus heavily on fighting and application of everything we do. We fight using chi sou or "sticky hands" and we have pretty extensive groundfighting training as well.

I can't do it justice via this medium, but that’s basically it in a nut shell. I think most northern mantis styles share alot in common, but I don’t have alot of knowledge of other mantis system through experience at least. Maybe someone else who studies another style could also answer this question and we could see some similarities or differences.

7sm

 

[Tswolfman]

Hello All I have Been Training In What I have been Told Is A korean/Chinese Hybrid Of Northern Seven Star Praying Mantis going by The Name Of Ship Pal Gi Can Anyone Verify This For me or Recomend any Legimate Northern Preying Mantis Instructors in North Central Ohio.

 

[j_m]

Hello All I have Been Training In What I have been Told Is A korean/Chinese Hybrid Of Northern Seven Star Praying Mantis going by The Name Of Ship Pal Gi Can Anyone Verify This For me or Recomend any Legimate Northern Preying Mantis Instructors in North Central Ohio.

North Central Ohio is a little vague... but here you go:


http://www.wutangcenter.com/wt/index.html





jm

 

[7starmantis]

Hello All I have Been Training In What I have been Told Is A korean/Chinese Hybrid Of Northern Seven Star Praying Mantis going by The Name Of Ship Pal Gi Can Anyone Verify This For me or Recomend any Legimate Northern Preying Mantis Instructors in North Central Ohio.

I've never heard of that style, but I did a little searching and found these sites about it.

http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=268

http://trudos.cc/_wsn/page3.html

This page's description seems to be accepted by most I could find, but is quite incorrect in its description of 7* mantis. It talks about the base form of 7* and is incorrect there as well.

Thats about all I could find about it, it sounds interesting, I would love to see it, or hear how they use techniques from the mantis system with korean principles.

7sm

 

[Tswolfman]

Accually Trudo's is were i used to Train. He is a good Instructor I just had a personal problem that i need to leave to resolve.

 

[Invenium]

7sm,

Though we called it "Seven Star" due to a bit of mixing of lineage in taiwan, the system I studied briefly under Sifu Carl Brison Lopez in CT is derived, in part at least, from Sixh Harmonies.

The lineage is given here at the mantis cave:
http://www.geocities.com/mantiscave/liohe.htm

Since many of the styles are so closely related and hybrid, I'm not sure how pure the actual system is now.

 

[7starmantis]

7sm,

Though we called it "Seven Star" due to a bit of mixing of lineage in taiwan, the system I studied briefly under Sifu Carl Brison Lopez in CT is derived, in part at least, from Sixh Harmonies.

The lineage is given here at the mantis cave:
http://www.geocities.com/mantiscave/liohe.htm

Since many of the styles are so closely related and hybrid, I'm not sure how pure the actual system is now.

Welcome to MartialTalk. Its good to have you here, ask any questions you may have and make yourself at home.

I'm assuming from your response that you also practice Ship Pal Gi, is that correct? Why if its taken from 6 harmoneis, would you call it 7 star? Do you know where the mixing in lineage is? I would be interested in seeing exactly where the mix came in. Yes, many of the mantis styles are similar, they all share many common principles, I dont see that as proof of their impurity, but I do agree they are very similar.

My only concern is the incorrect descriptions of 7* and even an incorrect statement of 7*'s base form. If they are incorrect about that, how could they have taken from it correctly? It just seems a tad bit shaddy. I'm not saying it is, just seems that way.

7sm

 

[Invenium]

Hi and thanks for the welcome!

I'm probably the worst person in the world to be answering these questions, since I was only able to train with Sifu Carl for a few months, but the decision to call the style Seven Star was made by Liang Ji Ci, the man who brought it to the US. The system was, from what I can tell, very hybridized, so it's not propper to say it comes directly from Six Harmony any more to say that it comes directly from Seven Star.

Liang Ji Ci's online biography (again from Mantis Cave) gives a bit of background as to the varied nature of his training, but doesn't mention the story I was told about the chosing of a particular system name:

Liang Ji Ci learned under the following masters:
* Zhang Xiang San (Liu He Tang Lang Quan)
* Wei Xiao Tang (Ba Bu Tang Lang Quan)
* Liu Zu Yuan (Tai Ji Tang Lang Quan)
* Wang Song Ting (Chang Quan Tang Lang Quan)
* Liu Yun Qiao (Liu He Tang Lang Quan and other Wu Tang association styles, i.e. Ba Ji Quan).
While he was learning under shifu Zhang Xiang San, he asked shifu Liu Yun Qiao (shifu Zhang Xiang San gong fu brother) to teach him. That is how he became Liu's first disciple in Taiwan. Shifu Liang Ji Ci was one of the few students who got to "touch hands" (spar) with shifu Liu Yun Qiao.
Shifu Liang Ji Ci's wife is Han Ling Ling, therefore he is the son-in-law of the legendary shifu Han Ching Tang (Chang Quan).
In 1972 shifu Liang Ji Ci moved to the Philippines where he taught till the mid 80's. While shifu Liang Ji Ci was in the Phillipines he taught tang lang quan to shifu Xu Wei Peng (a.k.a. Shakespeare Chan, a famous disciple of shifu Zhao Zhi Min).
It is said that shifu Liang Ji Ci learned very in-depth Seven Stars Praying Mantis form Zhao Zhi Min lineage when he lived in Malaysia, but I was unable to confirm this version.
In the mid 80's shifu Liang Ji Ci moved to Boston, MA (USA), where he still lives. He has a school where he teaches Liu He Tang Lang , Ba Ji Quan, Pi Gua Quan, Ba Gua Zhang, Northern Shaolin, Tai Ji Quan, and some Chang Quan and Xing Yi.

I can say that I was told the style was deffinately NOT orthodox Seven Star, and that the name was used only out of respect for Liang Ji Ci. I'm not sure if Sifu Carl is teaching currently, because he was working full time as a police officer when I left the Navy (and CT) in 2002.

I hope this helps...it's about the extent of what I know.
*bow*

 

[j_m]

* Liu Yun Qiao (Liu He Tang Lang Quan and other Wu Tang association styles, i.e. Ba Ji Quan).
While he was learning under shifu Zhang Xiang San, he asked shifu Liu Yun Qiao (shifu Zhang Xiang San gong fu brother) to teach him. That is how he became Liu's first disciple in Taiwan. Shifu Liang Ji Ci was one of the few students who got to "touch hands" (spar) with shifu Liu Yun Qiao.
Shifu Liang Ji Ci's wife is Han Ling Ling, therefore he is the son-in-law of the legendary shifu Han Ching Tang (Chang Quan).

Very interesting! Interesting from the aspect of lineage and history regarding what I study/practice anyway. If the above quote is true then Liang was one lucky SOB! :ultracool




jm

 

[Gavin]

My father tells me that I am a good-hearted person, but it is my temper that ruins me. Can anyone suggest how I can train to calm my temper and nurture my good-heart ? thanks

 

[Ceicei]

My father tells me that I am a good-hearted person, but it is my temper that ruins me. Can anyone suggest how I can train to calm my temper and nurture my good-heart ? thanks

I suggest doing service (volunteer work).

Also take time to think about your previous experiences, what makes you angry and why; consider how could you respond differently the next time a similar situation happens. Practicing mental scenarios may help you react the same way when they occur.

In another thread, you mentioned you do not like Wu Shu much. You may need to give that style a little more time, or simply start looking elsewhere that would suit your personality and needs more.

- Ceicei

 

[jfarnsworth]

Accually Trudo's is were i used to Train. He is a good Instructor I just had a personal problem that i need to leave to resolve.

Interesting. I have met a couple of people from Trudo's school. Were you looking for another art to try out? :asian:

 

[Tswolfman]

Yes I am a practiconer of Ship Pal Gi. Although I no longer practice with master Trudo I still practice all that he taught me. The only part of my Ship Pal Gi linage I know of is I was a student of Rita Dudley & Darrell Trudo. Who are student's of Chris Rausch. Who was a student of Young P. & Joon B. Choi and unfortutately that is as far as i know. I am looking for another school to studo praying mantis with.

 

[7starmantis]

Yes I am a practiconer of Ship Pal Gi. Although I no longer practice with master Trudo I still practice all that he taught me. The only part of my Ship Pal Gi linage I know of is I was a student of Rita Dudley & Darrell Trudo. Who are student's of Chris Rausch. Who was a student of Young P. & Joon B. Choi and unfortutately that is as far as i know. I am looking for another school to studo praying mantis with.

Would you mind explaining some of your training methods and principles used in Ship Pal Gi? I would be interested to hear them.

7sm

 

[Tswolfman]

Im not entirely sure what you are looking for as far as training methods.Here is what we did in each class.I hope this is what you wanted. We would start with a few mins of meditation then go onto basic stances which were set in a easy pattern. then we would do what we called tan taes and dan shu's these were series of movements that as you reached higher levels you would learn more of the series tan taes were divided into 10 parts and dan shus wre divided into 8 parts after that we would train on our long forms each rank had at least one. I beleive our last rank had 2 but i wasnt that high so I dont know for sure. after that we would go over kicking drills, weapons practice or self defense techniques. Then we would end the class with medition for a few minutes. the students who were not advanced enough to continue would stand at the back in a ready position until the senior belt students finished there techniques. the Classes only lasted 45 min or so most times.