No Enemies? I'm stumped....

[Fu_Bag]

Hi All,

I read something recently where some masters have advised their students to have "no enemies". Do you think this is possible in this day and age? I seem to be stuck in a circular logic/arguement with myself over this. Yes, I know that makes me really weird and crazy but at least you're safe on the other side of your computer screen!

The obvious thing would be to just not consider people your enemies and, hopefully, they wouldn't become your enemy. Some people just can't help but to insist on being your enemy, though. They are intent on harming you and there's just no way they're going away without some kind of confrontation. Even if you did some really good negotiating, these people usually have an inherent desire to harm others so you know they'll keep coming back to harm you.

One thing I read is that they're defeated before they even take action against you. While this may end up being the case, that then opens you up for either a revenge scenario or for future conflict. I suppose you can always say "I am the bug zapper and they are the bugs" but that also leaves you open to further conflict. I guess that maybe the lesson is just to let go of such things and they'll work themselves out.

What do you all think?


Fu Bag (the nerd)

 

[Sapper6]

there is an enemy to every hero, like it or not. perhaps not everyone has met their's yet.

the enemy takes on different forms; not always human.

good luck with yours.

 

[Grenadier]

It's more of a matter of not doing something that could cause you to get into a fight. In this case, it's probably simply common sense. There's an old saying that those who foolishly seek out danger, often find it...

At the same time, though, this does not mean "lay down and let people trample you." If you are in a situation where you could be seriously harmed, then you'd better fight, and fight to the best of your abilities.



I'm going to go back in time a wee bit.

Once upon a time, there was a well-trained Karate-ka named John Keehan. He even helped Trias co-found the USKA, which had a lasting impact on competition Karate, that is still well-manifested to this date.

One day, he departed from being a traditional martial artist, and he decided to changed his name to Count Juan Raphael Dante, and started advertising himself as "The Deadliest Man in the World" in a lot of comic books, promoting his new "Black Dragon" organization. Needless to say, he ended up a lot of enemies, and his actions of going over to other dojos to beat up the people in there, certainly earned him some more spite.

He even tried to burn down a rival's dojo once...

Then one day, he and a few of his friends disguised themselves as police officers, and went to a rival dojo, and started one nasty brouhaha. This ended up in one of Keehan's closest friends getting killed, putting a lot of stress on Keehan himself. This only made his ulcer even worse, and he ended up dying from internal bleeding.

This is one lesson that I tell my students as well, that you try not to make enemies, so that you don't get into trouble. He probably had to live with the constant nagging of his conscience, wondering if he could have done things differently, so that his best friend wouldn't have died.

 

[Paul B]

Maybe that's just the old Master's way of telling us we are our own worst enemy.

If we are letting others actions control our thoughts and emotional reactions,we have already handed over the edge in the encounter.

By staying calm and in control of our emotions and body,we are able to move and act freely and appropriately without bias. Hence,regarding someone else as an enemy or even acknowledging their actions as such..we defeat ourselves.

In short...don't take it personally.

 

[Xue Sheng]

An old Chinese Bagua master once said "Don't fight, and if you do kill them or they will come back and try and kill you, and if you kill them kill their family too so they cannot take revenge on you either. Otherwise, don't fight"

I would rather try and not fight and have no enemies myself.

There are various degrees of enemies that can do various things some extreme some minor.

To me it comes down to what can this person really do to you. Is the fact they consider themselves your enemy really going to have any effect on you what so ever.

If they are physically attacking you then it is a whole different scenario and you can defend yourself. But if they are just telling others your a big jerk, who cares.

Also I have to agree with the thought that most battles are decided before they start.

If you have not already done this, you might want to read Sun Tzu Bing Fa (Sun Tzu the art of war)

 

[Rich Parsons]

An old Chinese Bagua master once said "Don't fight, and if you do kill them or they will come back and try and kill you, and if you kill them kill their family too so they cannot take revenge on you either. Otherwise, don't fight"

I would rather try and not fight and have no enemies myself.

There are various degrees of enemies that can do various things some extreme some minor.

To me it comes down to what can this person really do to you. Is the fact they consider themselves your enemy really going to have any effect on you what so ever.

If they are physically attacking you then it is a whole different scenario and you can defend yourself. But if they are just telling others your a big jerk, who cares.

Also I have to agree with the thought that most battles are decided before they start.

If you have not already done this, you might want to read Sun Tzu Bing Fa (Sun Tzu the art of war)

Yes, I had someone keep coming back to attack me with more and more friends and it did not stop until he realized that he had a family that could be put into danger by his actions. So, if oyu fight end it so it does nto come back is still valid, to a point.

Although the no enemy issue is hard.

I was ( am ) the big guy who does not hurt others or try to put myself forward. So there always seems to be at least one guy who is willing to try himself against me as I am not trying to show off or make others look bad.

So even by being quiet and doing nothing you can find an enemy who is looking to promote themself and care not for you.

It also applies to other aspects of life, as in you do not play gold with the right people at work, but do a good job and everyone likes your work. So others go out of their way to make trouble for you or to find a way so you look not as good or bad.

So Even if you just live life clean and work hard there will be people who will be enviable and also become your enemy over it.

So I also would be hard pressed to argue to never have enemies in ones life, for me that would require everone to be in my presence and be my friend at the same time or for me to make sure they could never be around to be my enemy.

Yet, if one looks at a simple farmer or peasant who would never have a person look at them and be envious, and they helped their neighbors so even they are not upset you seem to grow better beets than they do. So, in today's life I could live on the street and no one would be envious, but I might still have an enemy as some might want to take me off the streets and clean them up. If I were a farmer, then I am in business and that means I have to compete to get by, or I could just own enough land and live off of it, but some people might still become envious and thereby become my enemy.

I see no path where I can guarentee that I have no enemies. Now I can see pathes that cause more enemies than others, and one could see avoiding them, but it is really hard to make sure others do not become your enemy as one cannot control others.

 

[matt.m]

Not since my time in the Marines have I "Really" fought. I am of the thought line of "Have no enemies,"

There have been times when things could have gotten nasty. However, I would diffuse the situation by saying something like "Dude you don't want to waste your time beating me up. You have better things to do."

It works every time, it keeps people off guard.

 

[Last Fearner]

I read something recently where some masters have advised their students to have "no enemies". Do you think this is possible in this day and age?

....What do you all think?

While I can not be certain of the meaning of the masters about which you read, I can express my interpretation which others here have also touched upon.

Anyone can choose to dislike you, attack you, or look upon you as their "enemy" - - that is their choice. Although you can attempt to influence people, and avoid doing things to prompt others to identify you as an enemy of theirs, ultimately you can not control these things.

However, to choose to identify, or label someone as your "enemy" is your own choice. To choose to "have no enemies" is also your choice. This concept of "having no enemies" is one of perspective. Others might look upon you as their enemy, but you do not have to view them as your enemy. Labeling people as your enemy might influence your demeanor, interaction with them, and your ability to remain detached, and think with a clear head to resolve conflicts. Your motives might change, and, as others here have stated, you will have defeated yourself before the battle begins.

If confronted by a person who thinks I am their enemy, they might hate me, and act with anger and loss of control. If I reciprocate, and view them as my enemy, I might do the same. However, if I view them as a person who is making poor choices, I can defend against any aggression with only one purpose in mind - - success in self preservation followed by a return to a peaceful existence. This, I can repeat as many times as necessary. :asian:

CM D.J. Eisenhart

 

[Jonathan Randall]

If confronted by a person who thinks I am their enemy, they might hate me, and act with anger and loss of control. If I reciprocate, and view them as my enemy, I might do the same. However, if I view them as a person who is making poor choices, I can defend against any aggression with only one purpose in mind - - success in self preservation followed by a return to a peaceful existence. This, I can repeat as many times as necessary. :asian:

CM D.J. Eisenhart

Well said.

When people who walk around constantly viewing others as "their enemies" they are considered to have a "chip on their shoulders" that eventually someone will do their very best to knock off.

 

[MJS]

If confronted by a person who thinks I am their enemy, they might hate me, and act with anger and loss of control. If I reciprocate, and view them as my enemy, I might do the same. However, if I view them as a person who is making poor choices, I can defend against any aggression with only one purpose in mind - - success in self preservation followed by a return to a peaceful existence. This, I can repeat as many times as necessary. :asian:

CM D.J. Eisenhart

Great point!! I feel that this is something that the arts should teach us, to always do our best to be the better person. Many times, the other person feeds off of our actions. If we get angry, they've in turn got what they wanted. By remaining calm, we're much more prepared to deal with the confrontation.

Mike

 

[MRE]

While I can not be certain of the meaning of the masters about which you read, I can express my interpretation which others here have also touched upon.

Anyone can choose to dislike you, attack you, or look upon you as their "enemy" - - that is their choice. Although you can attempt to influence people, and avoid doing things to prompt others to identify you as an enemy of theirs, ultimately you can not control these things.

However, to choose to identify, or label someone as your "enemy" is your own choice. To choose to "have no enemies" is also your choice. This concept of "having no enemies" is one of perspective. Others might look upon you as their enemy, but you do not have to view them as your enemy. Labeling people as your enemy might influence your demeanor, interaction with them, and your ability to remain detached, and think with a clear head to resolve conflicts. Your motives might change, and, as others here have stated, you will have defeated yourself before the battle begins.

If confronted by a person who thinks I am their enemy, they might hate me, and act with anger and loss of control. If I reciprocate, and view them as my enemy, I might do the same. However, if I view them as a person who is making poor choices, I can defend against any aggression with only one purpose in mind - - success in self preservation followed by a return to a peaceful existence. This, I can repeat as many times as necessary. :asian:

CM D.J. Eisenhart

Great insight. I saw this approach work recently. We have a couple of grumpy guys at work who have been with the company for over 20 years. They have alot of invaluable expertise, but for some reason or another, they just don't can't get along with the rest of the staff. One of the people they were especially hard on was a guy with only two weeks experience on the job. The new guy was really working out well, and I didn't want to lose him. So I decided to have a talk with the two grumpy guys the following week. However, when I went down to speak with them, I saw them having lunch with the new guy, and laughing it up like they have been friends forever.

Later, I cornered the new guy and asked him how he managed to win the other guys over. He shrugged and told me that although they had a problem with him, he didn't have a problem with them. So he showed it by showing them the same courtesy that he would anyone else. He said good morning to them everyday, even though he sometimes got no response, he asked them if they needed anything if he was going to pick something up from the store, etc. I guess after a while, it was hard for them to hold a grudge against a guy that didn't reciprocate.

 

[pstarr]

You're dating yourself! I remember when that happened! Wild 'n Wooly days, those were.

I believe that the statement, "Have no enemies" simply refers to trying to avoid making enemies...

 

[Touch Of Death]

Being empathetic instead of polarizing is not a bad thing.

 

[Fluffy]

Maybe that's just the old Master's way of telling us we are our own worst enemy.

If we are letting others actions control our thoughts and emotional reactions,we have already handed over the edge in the encounter.

By staying calm and in control of our emotions and body,we are able to move and act freely and appropriately without bias. Hence,regarding someone else as an enemy or even acknowledging their actions as such..we defeat ourselves.

In short...don't take it personally.

Bingo! Good Post.

 

[Fu_Bag]

Sapper6,

Thanks for the reply and best of luck to you as well! That was a very unique way of phrasing that.


Grenadier,

Thanks for sharing that lesson with me. That's an almost surrealistic story. I really enjoy reading your posts. Also, your avatar is helping me to overcome my aversion to enormous spiders in my mouth (I don't seem to be making any real progress with that, BTW)!!! Damn!! Just...Damn!!!



Paul B,

I love this part!!! " In short...don't take it personally. "



Xue Sheng,

And then there's always this:

Xue Sheng's version:

" But if they are just telling others your a big jerk, who cares. "


Fu Bag's version:

* But if they are just telling others your a big jerk, who cares....because if they knew....oooooohhhhhh yyyeessss.... if they only knew how pathetic and weak they truly are compared to my mad, crazy, BAMOFO skills.....they'd be crying, pleading, and grovelling before me in some futile attempt to save their poor, pitiful, pathetic little lives!!!! BBBbbbbwwwwaaaaaaahhhhhaaaaahahahahahahaaaaa!!!!!

Just kidding.



Rich,

Thatk you for the reply. That's definitely what I'm talking about. I especially like this part:

" Yet, if one looks at a simple farmer or peasant who would never have a person look at them and be envious, and they helped their neighbors so even they are not upset you seem to grow better beets than they do."

I think that there are definitely ways to make people feel more comfortable and safe around you * because * of your strength instead of it being a negative all the time.



Matt,

Thank you for sharing your experiences. This is great: "Dude you don't want to waste your time beating me up. You have better things to do." I can only imagine what their expressions must've been!



Mr. Eisenhart,

This is definitely something I'm working on within myself:

"If confronted by a person who thinks I am their enemy, they might hate me, and act with anger and loss of control. If I reciprocate, and view them as my enemy, I might do the same. However, if I view them as a person who is making poor choices, I can defend against any aggression with only one purpose in mind - - success in self preservation followed by a return to a peaceful existence. This, I can repeat as many times as necessary."

Thanks for sharing that.



Mike,

What you're talking about can definitely help save your life and the lives of those around you in a bad situation. Very important stuff there....



MRE,

That's a great example! I don't know if you've ever seen any "Muppet Show" stuff but I can totally imagine the two grumpy hecklers when reading that story. Thanks for sharing that.



Touch of Death,

I agree. Empathy has saved my butt many times. It's amazing how powerful a technique it can be.



pstarr,

How long have you been training? That situation sounds like a mess. I hope nobody tries to repeat it.....


Have a nice day/night all,


Fu Bag