No difference only the names been changed

[ancient warrior]

All of the best hrd black sashes that have left the whrd assoc. still train and teach the same old hrd art, only its modified to fit their situation of comfort without a lawsuit funny how they bash headquarters and keep on teaching..... the same stuff

 

[terryl965]

And your point is?

 

[Xue Sheng]

And your point is?

What terry said

 

[arnisador]

All of the best hrd black sashes that have left the whrd assoc. still train and teach the same old hrd art, only its modified to fit their situation of comfort without a lawsuit funny how they bash headquarters and keep on teaching..... the same stuff

This is a story as old as the martial arts...and the plot of many kung fu movies. The senior students leave, form their own schools, teach barely modified material, and badmouth their old instructor.

Sometimes it's justified; sometimes it's understandable; and sometimes it's just ego.

 

[MBuzzy]

Maybe this thread should just list all of the other styles that this has happened to! I'll start....Soo Bahk Do and Tang Soo Do - used to be one style.

 

[arnisador]

I'll start....Soo Bahk Do and Tang Soo Do - used to be one style.

Yes, named Shotokan karate!

 

[JWLuiza]

Yes, named Shotokan karate!

ZING!!! Actually, probably not Shotokan because of the inclusion of Lohai and not Meikyo.... And there were several Tang Soo Dos....

 

[bdparsons]

All of the best hrd black sashes that have left the whrd assoc. still train and teach the same old hrd art, only its modified to fit their situation of comfort without a lawsuit funny how they bash headquarters and keep on teaching..... the same stuff

How is this different from the Lee brothers leaving the Hapkido fold and claiming that they now were the masters of an "ancient" art that COINCIDENTALLY looked just like the Hapkido they were teaching only a short time before??

Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute

 

[arnisador]

ZING!!! Actually, probably not Shotokan because of the inclusion of Lohai and not Meikyo.... And there were several Tang Soo Dos....

Heh, OK, yes, it was a bit more complicated than I indicated...

 

[matt.m]

Ah, I am not going to touch this subject with the exception of the following: A lot of arts across the board have similiar or borrowed techniques.

The main thing is the difference in the ideology of why the technique is being used. From what I have seen of Aikido and Hapkido I have made the following conclusion: A lot of it looks the same, however 1 is more for just redirection and getting away. The other is for destruction and then walking away.

If you look at the differences between tae kwon do and karate a lot is in the footwork, the same with hapkido and aikido. Look at Kumdo vs Kendo......same story, major difference is footwork and reason of application.

Just my .02

 

[SageGhost83]

How is this different from the Lee brothers leaving the Hapkido fold and claiming that they now were the masters of an "ancient" art that COINCIDENTALLY looked just like the Hapkido they were teaching only a short time before??

Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute

I think that is probably the main reason why we have so many "different" styles to begin with. Someone gains master rank in one style then leaves that style, gives their training a new name, and teaches it as an entirely new style altogether. Of course, that is only one reason and not the sole reason (or so I would hope :lol.

 

[searcher]

Sice we are throwing out styles that this has happened to, you have to include All of the Okinawan karate styles. It seems that every generation thinks they can do it better.

 

[shesulsa]

All of the best hrd black sashes that have left the whrd assoc. still train and teach the same old hrd art, only its modified to fit their situation of comfort without a lawsuit funny how they bash headquarters and keep on teaching..... the same stuff

You know ... THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT OBSERVATION.

Firstly, I'm curious ... you said all the best HRD black sashes that left bash headquarters ... I don't see that, could you be more specific? I'm also curious ... exactly how much do you know about the situation? The people involved? Are you trusting the words of one person? one group of people? Have you ever interviewed any of these people face-to-face? What do you think they would have to say?

But I digress ... the most important point you made was that they keep on teaching the same stuff.

When you become a black sash, you swear an oath that you will somehow spread the art and that it will be a part of your life for the rest of your life. It seems these black sashes took their oaths seriously.

Is there ... a problem with that?

 

[ancient warrior]

i wont mention names but we all know these great teachers that have gone on to teach their own modified systems of the 60s-70s hrd system taught by the lee bros. i'm just thinking that it was money driven to leave whrd assoc. its probably very hard for a young small school to survive in todays market of (franks) karate schools, but leaving whrd u have no connection to the grandmaster no accountability to the highest rank in the system. this is unfair to students.

 

[shesulsa]

i wont mention names but we all know these great teachers that have gone on to teach their own modified systems of the 60s-70s hrd system taught by the lee bros. i'm just thinking that it was money driven to leave whrd assoc. its probably very hard for a young small school to survive in todays market of (franks) karate schools, but leaving whrd u have no connection to the grandmaster no accountability to the highest rank in the system. this is unfair to students.

I think you are speaking of issues you don't know enough about to give a qualified opinion on. Nor, really, do I - all I know is what has been told to me and what is left on this side of the fence. The rest is none of my business - nor is it yours.

I would advise you to drop it out of respect for others who have worked FAR harder FAR LONGER than either you or I.

Farang.

 

[tkd1964]

All of the best hrd black sashes that have left the whrd assoc. still train and teach the same old hrd art, only its modified to fit their situation of comfort without a lawsuit funny how they bash headquarters and keep on teaching..... the same stuff

I haven't heard anyone of these instructors talk bad about the HQ other then one. But I have read on the WHRD site many accusations of these instructors. It was said that none realy tested for there Black Sash, yet Master Peter Kim was his go to guy for demos along with Master Duggan. Master DeAlba made a deal with them and puff, his rank is back.
The WHRDA feels that they can control the art and the instructors but they can't. How can you take back what you have taught?

 

[arnisador]

I think you are speaking of issues you don't know enough about to give a qualified opinion on.

That's pretty common here, isn't it?

I bought all three volumes of the HRD books when they first came out. The art looked fascinating but the backstory was clearly fabricated. I would be curious to know the whole truth, but frankly, it hardly matters--it's an old story to put a legendary spin on a newer art, and in post-Japan occupation Korea it was almost mandatory to do so it seems.

 

[ancient warrior]

isnt this a place of honorable discussion? i believe its anyones business who trains in hrd .I see these schools teaching modified cirriculum and the students have no idea they even have a grandmaster with a set system in place for years. anything i say will not take anything from anyone, but it may cause someoneto look inward as to why?

 

[ancient warrior]

its not about controlling the art its more of keeping the standard high .

I haven't heard anyone of these instructors talk bad about the HQ other then one. But I have read on the WHRD site many accusations of these instructors. It was said that none realy tested for there Black Sash, yet Master Peter Kim was his go to guy for demos along with Master Duggan. Master DeAlba made a deal with them and puff, his rank is back.
The WHRDA feels that they can control the art and the instructors but they can't. How can you take back what you have taught?

 

[tkd1964]

its not about controlling the art its more of keeping the standard high .

It is about control. These Masters had a meeting to make up a new organization because of the hold he tried to have on them. When the WHRDA found out, everyone was demoted to white sash.
Sooner or later a bird has to leave the nest and learn to fly. There are Masters out there that have gone on their own yet still train under their original instructor because their original instructor respected their decision to move on. Respect is a two way street.