New Tae Kwon Do Book

[dortiz]

Hi Guys my teacher B. K. Cho has put together a book detailing Tae Kwon Do and both the Chang On and Kukkiwon forms. Its awesome! Stuart, Simon and anyone else, I would love ideas on where to place it to help him sell them.
Here is my Facebook link with some pics.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=438210&id=1324279200&ref=mf

Thanks,
Dave O.

 

[Miles]

David, will this be sold on Amazon? From photos, it looks very cool!

BTW, is GM Cho out of Illinois or Wisconsin? The name is familiar but I can't recall exactly where or how.

 

[SJON]

Looks great, Dave.

Is it just a step-by-step manual for technique and pattern performance, or does it go into other stuff like applications?

I'd suggest the author submitting the book for review, offering interviews, etc. Totally Tae Kwon Do might be a good place to start.

Cheers,

Simon

 

[FieldDiscipline]

Looks very good.

 

[terryl965]

Dies this have application as well and if so, what are the thought behinf those application?

 

[dortiz]

"BTW, is GM Cho out of Illinois or Wisconsin? The name is familiar but I can't recall exactly where or how."

Wisconsin. I know he was there a long time. Only came out here recently. It been tough as it has not been the best of times to be a new player in any market right now. The pics in the office reflect a rather large group out there.

I am constantly impressed to see a 9th Dan in uniform and on the mat every day though and feel that time and his book are really a treasure. One that we dont have many years left to enjoy.

Simon, good idea. I need to read it front to back. I think I will set up to mail it to Stuart and maybe have him forward my copy then to you.

As I get through it I will post more on the content as well.

Thanks,

Dave O.

 

[dancingalone]

Dave, do you think you can put up an informational page outside of Facebook? Let's face it, not everyone uses Facebook (especially old guys like me), and they won't let you view a page without being a member. I understand the whole Web 2.0 marketing plan means you have to use sites like Facebook and LinkedIn and whatever else, but let's not forget the good old regular business web site...

 

[dortiz]

I can try. I just used that to host the pics. I will need to figure out a way to host them with better access. Any free photo sites that folks know of. I can certainly take more as well then.

Dave O.

 

[dancingalone]

I can post them up for you on my hosting account if you want. Just email it to me: leopardfist @ gmail .com. Remove the spaces.

Otherwise flickr.com is free as is googlepages.com.

 

[dortiz]

My project for tomorrow night then. Today is work, TKD and HKD.

: )

Dave O.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Hi Guys my teacher B. K. Cho has put together a book detailing Tae Kwon Do and both the Chang On and Kukkiwon forms. Its awesome! Stuart, Simon and anyone else, I would love ideas on where to place it to help him sell them.
Here is my Facebook link with some pics.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=438210&id=1324279200&ref=mf

Thanks,
Dave O.

Sorry, you struck a nerve with me. First it's Chang Hon, or Chang Hun.

Second, I am sure you hasve a great instructor, just as Jhoon Rhee. He Il Cho, Keith Yates etc. have many great qualities.

I do not understand why anyone, except for personal students of a particular instructor, would want to buy a book to first learn a knock off version of the original especialy when the original is the most widely accepted international standard. Perhaps once the original is learned, then other interpretations may be of interest. From what your facebook page shows of Won Hyo, it really ads nothing of consequence except confusion with regard to terminolgy and technical parameters.

 

[dancingalone]

I do not understand why anyone, except for personal students of a particular instructor, would want to buy a book to first learn a knock off version of the original especialy when the original is the most widely accepted international standard.

Which bible is the best? The King James? The Living Bible? The Revised Standard version? The answer depends on which denomination of Christianity one is.

It's the same for TKD forms books. I don't even believe General Choi's Encyclopedia is the most widely accepted standard any longer. Anecdotally I was told that He Il Cho's books actually have more copies printed.

In my part of the country, there are no ITF (any flavor) schools at all. If you were determined to teach yourself some Chang Hon forms, realizing that you'll just acquiring the shell of the form, ANY of the books out there would do just as good. Given the relative expense of General Choi's books, it's no mystery why someone would choose Mr. Yates' book or Mr. Cho's or Mr. Kwang's.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Which bible is the best? The King James? The Living Bible? The Revised Standard version? The answer depends on which denomination of Christianity one is.

It's the same for TKD forms books. I don't even believe General Choi's Encyclopedia is the most widely accepted standard any longer. Anecdotally I was told that He Il Cho's books actually have more copies printed.

In my part of the country, there are no ITF (any flavor) schools at all. If you were determined to teach yourself some Chang Hon forms, realizing that you'll just acquiring the shell of the form, ANY of the books out there would do just as good. Given the relative expense of General Choi's books, it's no mystery why someone would choose Mr. Yates' book or Mr. Cho's or Mr. Kwang's.

Sorry, your analogy Fails. When it comes to the bible there is much educated debate over who wrote what and even who chose what was to be included. When it comes to the Chang Hon Patterns there is no debate. While many pioneers assisted in the creation of certain forms there was a single authority as to technical parameters. Yes, some parameters could be open to intepretation, but these were relativley minor especialy when there was much opportuinity to train with the creator of the patterns.

Cost is certainly an issue. You can always save money and sacrifice quality.

However, you can get the 15 Volume encyclopedia on CD Rom including Shipping for $65.00 or the 15 Volume set with video of patterns viewable from 4 directions for $111.00 including Shipping.

Compared to what you get for the $ , how much are you really going to save?

 

[dancingalone]

Well, I'll confess I don't own all the books, just about 8 or 9 volumes from the version printed in the nineties. I'm glad there's an electronic version available that is more affordable.

That said, I do recall that I own the volume that contains Won-Hyo within it. Could you share what exactly makes General Choi's book so valuable other than the fact that his name is on it? My recollection from reading it so long ago are that the pages he devotes to forms are pretty dry with static posed pictures. Really no better than Mr. Cho's books if one were association-agnostic and one wanted to try to puzzle together a Chang Hon form.

I understand this is the authoritative source if you're an ITF guy, but...

 

[FieldDiscipline]

I agree with dancingalone on this one.

General Choi wasn't above "knocking off" other peoples forms/work either, if that's how you want to put it.

I don't see how you can say that this sacrificing quality without reading the whole book either.

The best books I have seen on Taeguek poomse are Kim Jeong Rok's series, and these are hard to come by now. A book like that could be worth recommending. Footwork diagrams would be good though.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Well, I'll confess I don't own all the books, just about 8 or 9 volumes from the version printed in the nineties. I'm glad there's an electronic version available that is more affordable.

That said, I do recall that I own the volume that contains Won-Hyo within it. Could you share what exactly makes General Choi's book so valuable other than the fact that his name is on it? My recollection from reading it so long ago are that the pages he devotes to forms are pretty dry with static posed pictures. Really no better than Mr. Cho's books if one were association-agnostic and one wanted to try to puzzle together a Chang Hon form.

I understand this is the authoritative source if you're an ITF guy, but...

A few examples. Note: I only could read the scanned page from the book posted on the facebook site.
1. Terminology and explanation of technique. If a stance has a name such as "Fixed Stance" in a pattern, you can go to the volume containing stances and get a detailed explanation of the technical parameters of that stance. Go anywhere in the world and people who are up to date will know the terminology and parameter. This book calls it a "Long L Stance" no apparent explanation of paramaters and differentiation from L Stance. Uses terminology not universaly known or described.
2. For any other technique, Stance, Kick, punch, or block, again, from the term in the pattern book you can access the technique in the appropriate volume and get all the parameters.
3. Each pattern is preceded with "New techniques for the pattern" and has illustrations of the techniques as well as addittional applications.
4. Each new technique for a patttern, as the pattern progresses has examples of applications. Some repeated from earlier patterns have examples as well. This facilitates learning distance, direction and method of execution, particularly with regard to previous or next positio
5. Foot diagrams show previous foot placment and new foot placement often with lines showing how the foot travels to get there.
6. FWIW IMNSHO the direction designation in both books while understandable could have been better if either compass or clock dial directions were used. However, General Choi's direction designation is universaly used.
7. General Choi's book is comprehensive. Some claim to have "All the Patterns" - 20 of them. Would you want a book that conmtained "All of the Alphabet" all 20 letters, or the entire english dictionarly, letters A-V?

Just off the top of my head

 

[FieldDiscipline]

Some claim to have "All the Patterns" - 20 of them. Would you want a book that conmtained "All of the Alphabet" all 20 letters, or the entire english dictionarly, letters A-V?

 

[dancingalone]

1. Terminology and explanation of technique. If a stance has a name such as "Fixed Stance" in a pattern, you can go to the volume containing stances and get a detailed explanation of the technical parameters of that stance. Go anywhere in the world and people who are up to date will know the terminology and parameter. This book calls it a "Long L Stance" no apparent explanation of paramaters and differentiation from L Stance. Uses terminology not universaly known or described.
2. For any other technique, Stance, Kick, punch, or block, again, from the term in the pattern book you can access the technique in the appropriate volume and get all the parameters.

Terminology and technique are school/association specific. Not everyone in TKD uses the same terms, and that's still true even if you had a native Korean as your instructor.

3. Each pattern is preceded with "New techniques for the pattern" and has illustrations of the techniques as well as addittional applications.
4. Each new technique for a patttern, as the pattern progresses has examples of applications. Some repeated from earlier patterns have examples as well. This facilitates learning distance, direction and method of execution, particularly with regard to previous or next positio

Well, I consulted a few pages from my books to confirm my recollections. The applications given as IMO rather basic, confined to the punch kick variety. I suppose a New Techniques for the pattern section is useful in some part as it provides a path for lineal progression of difficulty.

5. Foot diagrams show previous foot placment and new foot placement often with lines showing how the foot travels to get there.
6. FWIW IMNSHO the direction designation in both books while understandable could have been better if either compass or clock dial directions were used. However, General Choi's direction designation is universaly used.

Is this so revolutionary from what any kata/hyung book provides? Mr. Yates' book has these for sure, and I think Mr. Rhee's books do too. Mr. Cho's does not, but arguably his pictures are shot in a more clear fashion that the Encyclopedia.

7. General Choi's book is comprehensive. Some claim to have "All the Patterns" - 20 of them. Would you want a book that conmtained "All of the Alphabet" all 20 letters, or the entire english dictionarly, letters A-V?

That may be an advantage if you own all the volumes in the set or if you bought the DVD version. I never progressed far enough in TKD to learn all the black belt forms, but I recall there being a hyung called Juche(?) that was changed or replaced at some point due to politics. Does the Encyclopedia include both the old and new form?

Mr. Yates' book is a nicely focused book that is light and easy to transport. He also includes some Japanese forms, so his aims are different. Not sure how many forms Mr. Cho has in his three, but they surely have the vast majority of the Chang Hon forms.

I respect your position. In the end however, I just don't see the huge deal if you're not specifically an ITF student. You can certainly pick up the outer shell of say Do-San or Won-Hyo from any of these books. Obviously you need to visit your teacher for correction and fine tuning.

 

[terryl965]

Poomsae's, Tuls, Kata or forms are so wide range from teacher to teacher that it is not funny. I have been involved in TKD for over thirty years and it still amazes me how vast of termonology there is withen the same Art. Application are simple and direct most books never look to what can really be done with certain movements. I for one wish we as a whole could see other people views and accept what might be a new way. I am not saying his book does or not because I do not belong to Facebook but I am sure there must be something in there can could and may help someone.

 

[dortiz]

"Sorry, you struck a nerve with me. First it's Chang Hon, or Chang Hun.

Second, I am sure you hasve a great instructor, just as Jhoon Rhee. He Il Cho, Keith Yates etc. have many great qualities.

I do not understand why anyone, except for personal students of a particular instructor, would want to buy a book to first learn a knock off version of the original especialy when the original is the most widely accepted international standard. Perhaps once the original is learned, then other interpretations may be of interest. From what your facebook page shows of Won Hyo, it really ads nothing of consequence except confusion with regard to terminolgy and technical parameters. "

I apologize for not correctly using the americanized forms name. Often I jump on at work or on my Ipod and admit I type a bit short handed. That and if you look at some of my posts you may catch a bit of dyslexia even with a proof read or two. Please dont take that as insult in any way. Its more of my attempt to convey message with a need for improving content.
As for the book and its role I would say its clearly not for you. You are happy with your one set and thats great.
In my case and often times I find forum type folks who search out more info, like to have lots o books from different folks. Wether its the Encyclopedia or Dr Kimms, Chun and Choi etc. I like to have all of them for reference, pride, info and fun.
If nothing else having a summary of a 9th Dan Master to me is a treasure, my teacher or not. I would buy any stylists work if it was by their top Master to enjoy looking at. I am sure I would find something in it.
Is that everybody... no. But just like turning the channel on a show you dont have to watch, dont buy it and dont ask about it. Its easy eh?

Cheers,
Dave O.