new form

[marlon]

I have a two part question...or maybe it is just two questions: What does it take to create a viable lasting martial art form? Why would one create a new form?

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[Inverse Falcon]

Speaking for Shaolin Kenpo, Ralph Castro created his set of forms to chunk Kenpo techniques. Humans are very efficient at this: when we read, we do not need to look at each individual letter to grasp the word and the meaning, the entire word is chunked and acts as its own symbol. We can still subdivide compound words and suffixes and prefixes, however. The point is that we're better at remembering chunked material, yet we are still capable of separating it into useful components as needed. Personally, I would rather learn a double-digit number of forms containing many techniques than several hundred individual techniques.

Ideally, new forms should be built upon the principles taught by those learned before. In this way, forms extend and expand upon the basics and previous technique, granting sharper insight into their applications and purpose.

Of course, it helps if the form looks good and flows well. Tie form and function together rather than elevating one above the other.



Now, if I've misunderstood your question and you actually want to know about creating a whole new martial art altogether by combining strengths of other arts (such as Kajukenbo), or a set of principles and philosophies to act as a foundation and guide to one's own evolving and individual style (such as JKD), that's something else entirely. Please clarify your questions.

 

[HKphooey]

I have a two part question...or maybe it is just two questions: What does it take to create a viable lasting martial art form? Why would one create a new form?

Respectfully,
Marlon

I think identifying a common "struggle" of your students would be the first step in creating a set or form. If you see many students over the years having trouble with their balance, you make develop a form to work on this. I have see many schools add their own kicking sets/forms to help teach the basic kicks.

 

[MJS]

I have a two part question...or maybe it is just two questions: What does it take to create a viable lasting martial art form? Why would one create a new form?

Respectfully,
Marlon

I've often wondered why people would want to creat a new form, when chances are, there are already many existing forms in a system for people to work on. If they're understood, there are many aspects in each form that enable the student to work on various things.

Sometimes I hear people say, "Well, if I dont create something, the studetns are going to get bored because they've already learned the material." While this may be true, I have to wonder just how well the person really knows the fine points. Sure, they may know the moves, but are they really in the best stance? Can they come up with more than one application for each move?

Just my .02.

Mike

 

[kosho]

Hi,
Hope this finds you well. As far as makeing new forms. I think as a student grows, this is a good thing for each one to do. as the teacher you look for how the form was made and what not. I have everyone of my students as they get to a certain rank make a new form. I do not make any of the other students learn it. but i have that student add it to there list of katas. If others like the kata then i will have that student teach the kata to others. I myself made a kata called circle of the leopard. in this kata parts of the 10 point blocking system is added.
75% of the movements are cats stances. I have shown other Masters in other systems and all seem to like it. I do teach this kata in my Own Dojo... As far as students getting bored with there current katas.
Have them look at there katas from a Naga point of view. all katas even 1 pinion have throw teqs in them. I like it when you go to a seminar and a 2nd, or 3rd degree black is shown throwing arts in there first kata they learned 10 years ago..and they take the info back and show there students and this kata just became new all over again...you can take 1 pinion and have it a controlling form also. and escaping form...
so I think challeging the student to look out side of the box is a great thing.... plus as a teacher it helps you some times see things also from a different look. I was teaching 1 pinion to a 18 year old and just could not get them to see the 270 degree spin. a 5 year old student came over and said ( sensei the elbow leads the way) so i said show me please and the student showed me what he was talking about... and right there I just learned yet another great way to teach that movement... I went over to the 18 year old and showed him the elbow leads the way and he got it... Now this little help came from a 5 yr old... If my EGO was in the way I would never of learned this little teq: of showing the spin in 1 pinion...
and I thanked the student and alwas give him the credit for the teq: help... so you should never not lisen everyone can learn if you just lisen...
ok I'm Done, not sure if this helped???? my 2 cent's
steve
( never move back to move forward...)

 

[Flying Crane]

What does it take to create a viable lasting martial art form?

That may be for the later generations to decide. If you create a new form and teach it to your students, and it continues to be passed on from generation to generation, then it is deemed viable and worth keeping. I don't think you can determine that for yourself. All you can do is create what seems right in your experience.

Why would one create a new form?

A perception that something is lacking in what is already being done, at least according to your own experience.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Any themed form is worth taking a look at. Future generations can either discuss its merrits or trash it for its faults.
Sean

 

[marlon]

Speaking for Shaolin Kenpo, Ralph Castro created his set of forms to chunk Kenpo techniques. Humans are very efficient at this: when we read, we do not need to look at each individual letter to grasp the word and the meaning, the entire word is chunked and acts as its own symbol. We can still subdivide compound words and suffixes and prefixes, however. The point is that we're better at remembering chunked material, yet we are still capable of separating it into useful components as needed. Personally, I would rather learn a double-digit number of forms containing many techniques than several hundred individual techniques.

Ideally, new forms should be built upon the principles taught by those learned before. In this way, forms extend and expand upon the basics and previous technique, granting sharper insight into their applications and purpose.

Of course, it helps if the form looks good and flows well. Tie form and function together rather than elevating one above the other.



Now, if I've misunderstood your question and you actually want to know about creating a whole new martial art altogether by combining strengths of other arts (such as Kajukenbo), or a set of principles and philosophies to act as a foundation and guide to one's own evolving and individual style (such as JKD), that's something else entirely. Please clarify your questions.

I think you undrestood my question quite well. I am not looking to create a new form and i feel there is enough out there in the forms i have to teach me for a life time. The question comes from me ordering my thoughts and teaching methods and questioning myself. I am learning quite a bit from the material i have. the chunking idea has come to mind once or twice...but i have made any forms.

Kosho, thanks by the way i can think of 4 different throws from one pinon right off the top of my head. It is a great form

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[davemitchel]

Hi Marlon,

Here is an article I read this morning, which supplies one of the many possible answers to your question. It is also a good read

Hard Reality:

How One Barroom Encounter Changed One Cop's Views On Fighting

By Robin Martin
(Editor's Note: This article discusses the pivotal encounter that forever changed the author's views on how to handle fights. Articles to follow will discuss the techniques he now teaches based on what he learned that day.)
Thirty years of martial arts training and instruction along with 18 years of police work have brought me to the profound conclusion that I just ain't the baddest dude around. I venture to say there are a few of you out there who have come to the same conclusion. In our twenties and thirties our skill level may have been phenomenal, but time eventually takes its toll. Old injuries, a thickening waist, slower reflexes and a mellowing of attitude all work against us until eventually we have to admit we just can't do what we did twenty thirty or maybe even ten years ago. A golfer factors this in to keep his game at par. A runner compensates by slowing the pace. A martial artist is no different and usually makes the transition from "GO" (hard) to "JU" (soft). I started my transition twenty years ago, in order to beat the crowd and keep myself alive. So far it's worked and hopefully by sharing it with you it'll work for you, too.
The soft arts, judo, jujutsu, aikijujutsu, aikido, hapkido and t'ai chi chuan, use a theory of redirection of an attacker's force to deal with an assault instead of the harder arts, which meet force with greater force. It was once explained to me that my Karate was like a game of "Chicken," because I would rush head long at an opponent. Unless he swerved, I crashed into him. In my youth I believed my skill, stamina and pain threshold were greater than anyone's, so I would always be the winner. Reality bites!
When you have a life-changing event you want it to be in a suitably dramatic setting, and I wish it had been a more exciting night, something dark and stormy, when I learned my lesson. Instead, it was a typical Louisiana hot, humid summer night. In the Deep South, in the 1970's, air conditioning was still considered a luxury in many homes and businesses. So when a man wanted to cool off after a long hot day of back breaking manual labor, he did so in the "refrigerated air" of one of our local saloons. There, cool air or not, when you mixed alcohol with men, tired of life's struggles, you ended up with short tempers, busted knuckles and occasionally death. As a police officer it was my job to keep the peace. Generally, this meant breaking up the fights and arresting the survivors.

http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=141


Sincerely
Dave

 

[Flying Crane]

Hi Marlon,

Here is an article I read this morning, which supplies one of the many possible answers to your question. It is also a good read



Sincerely
Dave

Interesting article. He described himself as 6ft 3 inches and 220 pounds. In many cases a guy that size can get away with a "muscle" approach.

I am 5ft 10 inches, 155 pounds. I always knew I couldn't rely on my physical presence, size, or strength. While I maintain a pretty high level of fitness and am fairly strong for my size (not a bodybuilder or anything, but not a scarecrow either) I always knew that so many people are a lot bigger and stronger. That was something I could never count on to save my butt.

getting the heck out of the way, and using techniques that slip or redirect an attack always made sense to me.

 

[kosho]

Hi,
Marlon, I some times get off track with what the post was to start with, sorry.
Are you going to N.J. this year?
steve

 

[Hand Sword]

I have a two part question...or maybe it is just two questions: What does it take to create a viable lasting martial art form? Why would one create a new form?

Respectfully,
Marlon

The creation of your own system, and the succesful, long term marketing of it! LOL!

 

[marlon]

Hi,
Marlon, I some times get off track with what the post was to start with, sorry.
Are you going to N.J. this year?
steve

I plan to be there. Hoppefully we can get some training in together.

Respectfully,
Marlon