Need a Plan B

[ballen0351]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=692816667492783

 

[Zero]

Not many could survive that?...not sure about that at all...

No offense but the cop's and the perp's "fight" (and the cop's SD) skills seemed limited at best or none-existent. I would wager most experienced fighters would knock the stuffing out of that perp, he had poor hand skills, poor balance and didn't really effect much damage to the much smaller cop, it went on for an awfully long time, even the perp's barrage of ground and pound punches didn't keep the cop down. Cop just hadn't drilled his "plan B" or "plan C"; didn't use baton against perp (probably didn't know how), maybe didn't have a gun when he had disengaged and made distance, H2H skills shocking, ability to disengage and leg it also not great.

Appreciate for some the perp would be in a higher weight category and that clearly influenced the altercation with this cop. Perp may also have been on something, or not, if resisted the HST. But again, perp's own ability to mete out damage was not great or perhaps he was just annoyed and wasn't committed to following through.

 

[K-man]

I think the biggest problem is the reliance on the weapon. Normally as soon as a gun is pulled you might expect the person would stop. I mean unless your life was on the line, who is going to walk in on someone with a gun pointing at you?

As Ballen said, no plan B was evident. Could a person with more MA or CQC training do better? Possibly, but I would wager the sight of that big guy coming at you after you had fired at him would be disconcerting to say the least. Under the circumstances, I reckon he was lucky to walk away.

 

[ballen0351]

My opinion the Cop didn't want to fight and really had no idea what to do. He tried his pepper spray that didn't work then shot the guy that didn't work. He had nothing else but run. He seemed to be on shock and has no idea what to do next. If your going to engage with someone be prepared. I don't know what of any training this cop has in self defense but it seemed limited to whatever he learned in the academy and no follow up with anything else.
I came across this clip as I start prepping for our annual in service training and I wanted to show the people I work with that they need to seek training elsewhere outside of a week or two in the academy and a few hours once a year.

Just a reminder guys and gals train and mentally be prepared to do what's needed. Real life is not pretty. Keep training

 

[ballen0351]

Not many could survive that?...not sure about that at all...

Yeah that was a strange way to start the comments I guess he was looking to draw attention.

No offense but the cop's and the perp's "fight" (and the cop's SD) skills seemed limited at best or none-existent. I would wager most experienced fighters would knock the stuffing out of that perp, he had poor hand skills, poor balance and didn't really effect much damage to the much smaller cop, it went on for an awfully long time, even the perp's barrage of ground and pound punches didn't keep the cop down. Cop just hadn't drilled his "plan B" or "plan C"; didn't use baton against perp (probably didn't know how), maybe didn't have a gun when he had disengaged and made distance, H2H skills shocking, ability to disengage and leg it also not great.

Appreciate for some the perp would be in a higher weight category and that clearly influenced the altercation with this cop. Perp may also have been on something, or not, if resisted the HST. But again, perp's own ability to mete out damage was not great or perhaps he was just annoyed and wasn't committed to following through.

It looked like after he shot the guy he lost his gun. Later he runs away and looks like he picked it back up from the grass. Alot of things were wrong with what happened and that's kinda how real life goes.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

This is also a great reminder of something that Kirk was saying to me a few weeks back: fatality is not (necessarily) instant. Even if you deliver a lethal wound with knife or gun, your opponent may be still in the fight and dangerous for quite some time. You have to be prepared to keep defending yourself.

 

[ballen0351]

This is also a great reminder of something that Kirk was saying to me a few weeks back: fatality is not (necessarily) instant. Even if you deliver a lethal wound with knife or gun, your opponent may be still in the fight and dangerous for quite some time. You have to be prepared to keep defending yourself.

So True. I shot someone in 2005. I placed 5 shots all center mass during autopsy all 5 were in the heart. After he dropped the gun he stood there looking at me for about 4 seconds turned around and started walking away. He was dead his body just didnt know it yet. Had he decided to shoot and not drop the gun he had about 8 to 10 seconds from when I stopped shooting to when he finally fell. He could have emptied his gun at me in that time if he wanted

Just last weekend we a 17 year old girl at a party get shot in the face. She was standing up walking around when we got there with a 9 mm round in her skull and half her teeth missing

 

[Carol]

^ Ugh.....

 

[Instructor]

That's intense! God Bless all police who have to deal with such harrowing events routinely.

 

[oftheherd1]

So True. I shot someone in 2005. I placed 5 shots all center mass during autopsy all 5 were in the heart. After he dropped the gun he stood there looking at me for about 4 seconds turned around and started walking away. He was dead his body just didnt know it yet. Had he decided to shoot and not drop the gun he had about 8 to 10 seconds from when I stopped shooting to when he finally fell. He could have emptied his gun at me in that time if he wanted

Just last weekend we a 17 year old girl at a party get shot in the face. She was standing up walking around when we got there with a 9 mm round in her skull and half her teeth missing

I think I mentioned in anotherthread that while in Vietnam, two of our MPs had to apprehend a soldier who was downtown alone after curfew. Two big MPs, one big bad guy. It was quite a fight, and the shop they fought him in was getting torn up pretty bad, not to mention the MPs were getting the worst of the fight. It got outside and one of the MPs realized what they were doing wasn't working. He pulled his .45 and pistol whipped the bad guy, but to no avail (understand he wasn'tr trying to blugeon him to death). He then stepped back and shot the guy in the thigh, but again, to no avail, only that now his partner was really getting the worst end of it. He fired again, getiing the guy in the foot; lots of bone to cause pain. He still didn't stop immediately, but then sat down, allowing as how he was tired, but as soon as he had rested, he was going to get up and really whip their butts. Later they discovered he was very high on barbiturates.

Once down, he didn't get back up, and was taken to B Med for treatment of his gunshot woulds. In another incident, an MP shot a guy in the stomach at point blank range. Instead of being blown back, per legend, they guy put his hands on his stomach, said something to the effect of "Oh, you shot me" and wilted down.

Point being, once you begin shooting, keep shooting. People often wonder why a person gets shot more than once. It's because of the training to keep shooting until there is no longer a threat. That is what should have happened in the video, but as Ballen said, things don't always go the way one would like them to, or plan on them going. He lost his weapon and is lucky not to have been shot with his own weapon, not to mention not to have been pummeled and kicked to death. I do think he might have had several opportunities to take out knees, but that is me with different training and not being the one also busy in trying to stay alive. Again, like Ballen, I congratulate the guy for staying in the fight. Being in shape and not giving up count for a lot.

Even so, the whole situation could have been worse. Either or both could have been killed. Not what the cop is likely to have wanted.

 

[K-man]

My opinion the Cop didn't want to fight and really had no idea what to do. He tried his pepper spray that didn't work then shot the guy that didn't work. He had nothing else but run. He seemed to be on shock and has no idea what to do next. If your going to engage with someone be prepared. I don't know what of any training this cop has in self defense but it seemed limited to whatever he learned in the academy and no follow up with anything else.
I came across this clip as I start prepping for our annual in service training and I wanted to show the people I work with that they need to seek training elsewhere outside of a week or two in the academy and a few hours once a year.

Just a reminder guys and gals train and mentally be prepared to do what's needed. Real life is not pretty. Keep training

One of my close friends and senior student is an ex-cop. The training they get in CQC in the academy is rudimentary. They are taught to make distance and use the tools they have available. They found they had far too many injuries resulting in time off from the hands on training so virtually gave it away. This guy will tell you that the hardest thing for him coming to train with me was entering to engage rather than backing off to draw a weapon.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I imagine this officer had his training from the police academy and maybe some refresher courses. Maybe he even had more outside of that. I just do not know. I do know that real world violence often looks messy and is unpredictable. In looking at videos of violence on the internet notice how often they are chaotic, messy, not very clean looking lines in the physical movement. That is what real world violence often looks like. There is just no guarantee that what you are doing will work immediately. Not if you shoot someone, cut them, stab, hit them with your best strike. That is why we train so that we have a plan B and if Plan A goes out the window we move onto the next Plan and so on down the line.

 

[K-man]

There is just no guarantee that what you are doing will work immediately. Not if you shoot someone, cut them, stab, hit them with your best strike. That is why we train so that we have a plan B and if Plan A goes out the window we move onto the next Plan and so on down the line.

And that in a nutshell is how we train kata, or perhaps I should say bunkai. You do something and if it succeeds, end of story. If it fails immediately move on to the next part. As you say, it is how we should always train.

 

[ballen0351]

Kman pass this on to the person your helping train for law enforcement