my thoughts on "formal"

[Katsu Jin Ken]

Just thought i'd throw this in. Everyone has condridictions, everyones a hypocritic. Weither or not they admit it or not is the difference between honesty(truth) and deception(untruth) of ones self. Honestly expressing yourself is the key. Weither the expression is hypocriticaly of what your originally speaking on or not doesnt matter. Controdictions(hypocriticism) is apart of the growth of a human as truth is reviled the falsehoods left behind will be what we call controdictions, i call growth from puberity to maturity in MA. I have come to a point in MA formal training where i have nothing left i feel to learn from them(this is for fighting and self defense purposes, now id love to go to China or somewhere to train in the old ways but not for self defense or fighting) Ive found truth in religion and mylife im finding it in the martial arts. Seems like all the instructors ive seen on TV and in person want a mimic of themselves. They dont want you to do the techniques in a confortable manner, they want it done text book fashion. I dont see the probably in doing a "untext book" technique if it is effective for the purpose your using it for. Why would you want to put yourself in a position you dont feel comfortable with from the get go, apply the technique, and hope that someday with enough repetition, you'll be comfortable. Why not just make a slight variation and do it "your way" the most comfortable yet efficient way you can? Hope this makes sense. I dont mean to offend anyone. You all have some thoughts?

"unless human being have 3 arms and 4 legs we will have a different style of fighting."-Bruce Lee


remember "le style, c'est l'homme" (the style is the man) the man makes the style, the style doesnt make the man.

 

[Flatlander]

I have come to a point in MA formal training where i have nothing left i feel to learn from them

I believe that you should reflect on this thought for awhile.

I'm willing to bet that you do not know it all.

There are currently 3005 members who post here. At least one of them must have something valuable for you to learn.

 

[Katsu Jin Ken]

here yes, but as far as "formal" teaching here in the US i dont know anymore.

 

[Marvin]

When you say "formal" do you mean "rigid" "traditional" or "orderly"?
Marvin

 

[Katsu Jin Ken]

i mean as far as inclass instruction. The classes here are WAY to big 50 people in one class. I feel you have to have the one on one teaching in order to properly be trained, and your flaws pointed out. Otherwise, why not just watch a video and mimic what it does, samething to me.

 

[pesilat]

First: on "hypocrisy."

Seems to me that you're confusing "changing one's mind/opinion" with "hypocrisy." They are different things. Though I may just be picking at semantics because it seems like you recognize the difference but are using the wrong words.

Second: "i mean as far as inclass instruction. The classes here are WAY to big 50 people in one class. I feel you have to have the one on one teaching in order to properly be trained, and your flaws pointed out. Otherwise, why not just watch a video and mimic what it does, samething to me."

Try other schools. If someone on this forum has something to teach you then, it seems obvious to me, that if you visited their class they would have something to teach you. And if people on this forum have something to teach you, then it seems to me that there's probably an instructor in your area who likely has something to teach you.

I agree that 50 people in one class is big. But not all classes are like that. There are, in nearly every community, instructors who teach small classes - maybe only in privates and semi-privates - in their garage or backyard. I personally have a school but I've only got about 8 students total. My average class size is about 4 people. My primary instructor has about 60 students total - but the average class size is around 10 people. And there are almost always at least 2 instructors in a class there.

Just because one, or even a handful, of schools doesn't have anything to offer you - that's no reason to shun all schools.

Mike

 

[Flatlander]

Precisely. All of my instruction is privates. Awesome way to learn.

 

[Katsu Jin Ken]

lol private lessons. Cheapest ones i could find are $50 an hour. I cant afford that. Maybe when i get out of school but thats in 3 years.

 

[Flatlander]

Wow. at $50/hour, that instructor's making some cake. I pay $25 for one hour/week, and that allows me to come to the group class once a week too. In all fairness, though, MA instruction is not my instructor's primary occupation, and so does not need huge cashflow to support himself.

But I'll tell you what, if he charged $50, I'd pay it. I'd just train less often.

 

[loki09789]

Some people are more effective in the social class environment. Some need the reinforcement of scheduled, structured classes that meet 2/4 times a week because they just won't train at home outside of those private lessons. It all depends on what you want and are willing to do to get it.

I think that there might not be too many 'artistic' lessons or 'new' ways that you could learn from a group class, but there are plenty of character, cooperation and social lessons that are just as productive to martial/self defense training because they help you learn to conduct your actions, words/tone so that you aren't triggering aggression from other people without knowing it. There have been times when I have been the 'white belt' again in a new class that I was welcome to work with where I learned something new about training (conditioning, organizing/grouping of techniques, fighting spirit...) or myself because of that 'newbie' status that I would never have gotten if I was just training on my own or in private lessons.

We all drift from it, and it is tough to seek the 'white belt' position after training for a long time - partially because it pricks our egos, but (as you mentioned, conscious of it or not) I would say the 'empty cup' mind for learning is a good thing to have. Always something to learn - even from a drill/technique you have done a million times.

 

[Katsu Jin Ken]

Good point! I think sometimes training in the katas/forms i know that is overkill until the day comes when it just pops out in combat. Its like a reflex now, like water i guess (to coin a famous Bruce Lee saying) and that is what every MAist is trying to do in my opinon. Make every movement learned a reflex, otherwise why practice?

 

[7starmantis]

I have come to a point in MA formal training where i have nothing left i feel to learn from them(this is for fighting and self defense purposes, now id love to go to China or somewhere to train in the old ways but not for self defense or fighting) Ive found truth in religion and mylife im finding it in the martial arts.

Be careful thinking you have nothing left to learn. If your not learning anything more, maybe you should talk to your sifu about that. Why is it you feel this way? I see your a student with 3 years left so I would assume your relativly young? What about your training makes you feel you have learned all you can learn from it?

7sm

 

[Katsu Jin Ken]

The fact that i have been doing MA for as long as i can remember. Im 21 by the way. So its been all my life as much of it as i can remember. All the moves are just variations on what i have already learned.

 

[Flatlander]

Have always trained in the same art? Does your art cover all ranges of combat including grappling? Weapons?

Also, I'd like to direct you to this thread http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14845

Awesome ideas there, if wholistic self defense is your approach. There are many other things worth considering besides just martial movement.

Good luck to you on your path. Keep searching for your answers. It's better to continually question and evaluate yourself than to claim "knowledge". That way you shall never limit your growth.

 

[oldnewbie]

Everyone has condridictions, everyones a hypocritic. Weither or not they admit it or not is the difference between honesty(truth) and deception(untruth) of ones self.

Generalization and global "truths" are easily viewed from the experience of youth. Be careful, when you do not open your mind to other possiblities, you will always know everything. Peace:asian:

 

[Cruentus]

Wow. at $50/hour, that instructor's making some cake. I pay $25 for one hour/week, and that allows me to come to the group class once a week too. In all fairness, though, MA instruction is not my instructor's primary occupation, and so does not need huge cashflow to support himself.

But I'll tell you what, if he charged $50, I'd pay it. I'd just train less often.

I pay 40 for privates, and thats as high as I'd go. It's well worth it.

Who do you train with privately, Flatlander?

:asian:

 

[Cruentus]

here yes, but as far as "formal" teaching here in the US i dont know anymore.

This is a misnomer. We are very lucky here in the U.S.; because of prosperity, many great masters from all over the world came right here on our soil to live. The idea that you can only find good quality training overseas is wishful thinking.

The fact is, a person will only see what they allow themselves to see. I you don't believe that any good quality training exists on U.S. soil, then you won't learn anything from anyone here. You've essentially closed off your mind.

A good way to open it is start going to some schools and go "live" with the instructors and students. Live means some kind of "sparring" we're your both moving in unpredicatable and resistant manners. If someone is getting the better of you, then you have something to learn from them.

Now get out there and have fun!

:uhyeah:

 

[Flatlander]

I pay 40 for privates, and thats as high as I'd go. It's well worth it.

Who do you train with privately, Flatlander?

:asian:

A WMAC brother instructor under Datu Kelly Worden. Don't know if its really appropriate to give his name online...but if you're resourceful, you'll find it. Sorry if that's not very precise.

 

[Cruentus]

A WMAC brother instructor under Datu Kelly Worden. Don't know if its really appropriate to give his name online...but if you're resourceful, you'll find it. Sorry if that's not very precise.

That's fine. I think I know who. That sounds great!

I do private lessons in Balintawak with Manong Ted Buot.
:asian:

 

[shesulsa]

#1: "Weither or not they admit it or not is the difference between honesty(truth) and deception(untruth) of ones self. Honestly expressing yourself is the key. Weither the expression is hypocriticaly of what your originally speaking on or not doesnt matter. Controdictions(hypocriticism) is apart of the growth of a human as truth is reviled the falsehoods left behind will be what we call controdictions, i call growth from puberity to maturity in MA."

Okay, I assume this is all a big dialogue basically meaning, "I'm just gonna say what I feel."

#2: "I have come to a point in MA formal training where i have nothing left i feel to learn from them(this is for fighting and self defense purposes, now id love to go to China or somewhere to train in the old ways but not for self defense or fighting)"

But...contradictions....are you a student or a master? If you are a student, you cannot know everything...even masters do not know everything. And there are plenty of masters here in the US who can train you in the old ways.

#3: "Ive found truth in religion and mylife im finding it in the martial arts."

Really? In my humble opinion, truth = perspective. You will only find truth in death, young one.

#4: "Seems like all the instructors ive seen on TV and in person want a mimic of themselves. They dont want you to do the techniques in a confortable manner, they want it done text book fashion. I dont see the probably in doing a "untext book" technique if it is effective for the purpose your using it for. Why would you want to put yourself in a position you dont feel comfortable with from the get go, apply the technique, and hope that someday with enough repetition, you'll be comfortable. Why not just make a slight variation and do it "your way" the most comfortable yet efficient way you can? Hope this makes sense. I dont mean to offend anyone. You all have some thoughts?

The difference between a teacher and an instructor is what you just imparted: those who want to clone themselves or turn out a small army are instructors - anyone can do that. A Teacher is one who challenges you and teaches you about those nasty, little hidden parts of you that limit your thinking and helps you blast them apart of your own volition.

Part of finding "truth" to your art is finding techniques that work for you and modifying them slightly to work for your particular build and how you match up against someone larger, smaller, stronger, more flexible, etcetera.

Suggestions:

#1 Speak with your teachers about your current feelings. I'm sure they can come up with a solution for you.

#2 If you REALLY want to learn your art - teach blind kids, deaf kids, physically challenged individuals - especially since you are interested in modification to suit individuals. You'll be surprised at what you don't yet know.

#3 Take a summer sabbatical and live in someone's dojo (far away from home) under a summer apprenticeship program.

#4 Be prepared that once you have studied for a long time, you find new things rarer and it becomes up to you to try new things, new arts, new weapons. Try a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT art - I assume you are into Wing Chung?

#5 Free your mind and the rest will follow.

#6 Work on your spelling before it's too late.

Respectfully,
She-Sulsa