My First Jujitsu Class! V2

[MattofSilat]

Hey there everyone.

The title may be a bit misleading, as today I had my second Jujitsu class, but calling it 'My second Jujitsu Class' would be a slight bit stupid.

Basically, I got my Gi today. It's a bit big, but I like it. I won't write a big essay today, I'm just going to voice my opinion and see what you think.

Despite displaying itself as Traditional Jujitsu, today we learnt some Aikido and Judo with it. It does appear that it is a hybrid between the three. I have no complaints against this, and I don't want everyone to slow down because of me, but I'm combining moves from three styles (Many of the moves I have never done or seen before) in a display of Blocks -> Strike -> Lock -> Throw (Normally). Does this not sound a slight bit much to somebody who recieved his white belt today... I keep on getting confused on the Blocking part, which is the basic core of seemingly every technique we do.

Our class consists of : Warmups, Practice 3-4 techniques (Well, I guess you could call it Katas, it's the sequence above) for about 10-12 minutes each, then leave. That's basically it.

I'm happy with the way in which these strings of techniques are learnt, don't get me wrong, they seem applicable in self-defense and the instructors teach us how to do it once, but I have never used any of these moves before. Then I have to string 4 of them together for 10 minutes, then won't use them again for a while. To be fair, we always seemed to end on the 'Shoulder Back Throw' today, but the methods of getting there are very different in the sequences. This is where the main issue lies. Is it really reasonable to expect a white belt of two hours experience in martial arts to remember a string of four never-before practiced techniques over the course of 10 minutes.

Don't get me wrong, my intentions are not to say 'Everyone slow down! This guy doesn't know anything', as it may sound. BUT. Even my training partner, a purple belt (I think that's still quite low, but a few stages up from me) is always discussing the techniques after the instructors have done the demonstration, making it seem like they are all completely new to him too, apart from the blocks.

Does this not sound a bit flawed to you?

I can't complain, I don't believe I should know very much after two hours, but I should know SOMETHING. All I really know is how to breakfall, that's the only 'technique' I could rely on at the moment. Again, I don't expect to know anything, but I expect to be able to recite the techniques I have learnt. Hell, maybe I just have memory issues, but I feel that I should be able to demonstrate ONE technique that we've learnt. Blocks don't really count in this respect as they seem to be the same (Of that type, that is), regardless of individual position.

Can you voice your opinion on this?

EDIT: I believe I could recite more from these techniques that I just saw online and breezed over than I have in class. I only went over the white belt stuff. http://www.ultimatejujitsu.com/learn-jujitsu-techniques/traditional-jujitsu-techniques/

 

[tshadowchaser]

AS a beginner many things may seem to be coming to fast and explanations seem to little. Some instructors give different techniques in each class for a period of time then will repeat them some time later.
It is up to the student to try to practice the techniques or at least some of them on his/her own. Later when they are done again your mind and body will say "hey i done this" and the technique will be understood better

 

[drop bear]

I did five years of jjj as a kid. Your impressions sound consistent. You tend to do a bulk of techniques each week but it is repeated week after week. So you get a series of stuff down at about the same time.

There is a big syllabus to learn and you can't just pick your favorates. You have to learn all of it.

Judo and akido is common in a jjj class. More than a bjj one for comparison.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi Matt,

I'm going to break this down, and see what you can get out of it. Hopefully this might help clear a few things up for you.

Hey there everyone.

The title may be a bit misleading, as today I had my second Jujitsu class, but calling it 'My second Jujitsu Class' would be a slight bit stupid.

Eh, I wouldn't worry too much about the title of the thread… realistically, this could very easily have just been your next post in your existing thread, but this is fine as well.

Basically, I got my Gi today. It's a bit big, but I like it. I won't write a big essay today, I'm just going to voice my opinion and see what you think.

How "big" do you mean? They're meant to be relatively loose fitting, but it shouldn't be something that you'll feel you need to "grow into"… especially for your first gi… commonly, they're fairly low-end, lighter material uniforms, so don't necessarily last all that long.

Despite displaying itself as Traditional Jujitsu, today we learnt some Aikido and Judo with it. It does appear that it is a hybrid between the three.

Yeah… what you're doing really isn't traditional Jujutsu at all… it's a modern eclectic Western system, based in Judo primarily, with some other ideas brought in… how you feel about that is, of course, up to you. Personally, I'd have some major reservations, but that's me.

Out of interest, though, how did you know that what you were doing was Aikido or Judo? Did the instructors identify it, or did you recognise something yourself?

I have no complaints against this, and I don't want everyone to slow down because of me, but I'm combining moves from three styles (Many of the moves I have never done or seen before) in a display of Blocks -> Strike -> Lock -> Throw (Normally). Does this not sound a slight bit much to somebody who recieved his white belt today... I keep on getting confused on the Blocking part, which is the basic core of seemingly every technique we do.

I don't know that that indicates to me that there's any "combination of moves from three styles" there… no system is a single aspect, other than some weaponry systems… Judo and Aikido have striking methods, Karate etc have throws and locks…

As far as "everyone slowing down because of (you)", forget that entirely, as it's a completely baseless idea. Of course you aren't picking it all up immediately, no-one does. Neither did any of the more senior students when they started either, and they all remember what it's like to have a first class.

Our class consists of : Warmups, Practice 3-4 techniques (Well, I guess you could call it Katas, it's the sequence above) for about 10-12 minutes each, then leave. That's basically it.

From what I've seen, I'd call them techniques, not kata… but that's quite a deeper topic, and a fair bit beyond where we need to be right now. In terms of the class, okay, not uncommon… sounds like about an hour class, then?

I'm happy with the way in which these strings of techniques are learnt, don't get me wrong, they seem applicable in self-defense and the instructors teach us how to do it once, but I have never used any of these moves before. Then I have to string 4 of them together for 10 minutes, then won't use them again for a while. To be fair, we always seemed to end on the 'Shoulder Back Throw' today, but the methods of getting there are very different in the sequences. This is where the main issue lies. Is it really reasonable to expect a white belt of two hours experience in martial arts to remember a string of four never-before practiced techniques over the course of 10 minutes.

No, it's not reasonable to expect you to remember them… but then again, the only person who thinks you should be able to is you. The instructors don't. The system isn't designed for that, and the training doesn't really work that way. The idea is that you are being introduced to a new method of moving, which is learnt by repeating the actions of the system and it's techniques. You'll find that some things are repeated quite frequently (in this case, what sounds like a seio nage), so that each time you come back to it, it's more and more familiar. After doing techniques that contain it for 6 months or so, you'll start to see how the different techniques are teaching different set-ups for the throw… but for now, it's just getting used to the actions.

Don't get me wrong, my intentions are not to say 'Everyone slow down! This guy doesn't know anything', as it may sound. BUT. Even my training partner, a purple belt (I think that's still quite low, but a few stages up from me) is always discussing the techniques after the instructors have done the demonstration, making it seem like they are all completely new to him too, apart from the blocks.

The purple belt has more experience… you have, what, 2 hours? As a result, he's able to identify aspects he recognises, even if he's never seen that way of approaching it before… which gives him a basis for discussing them. You're not used to the movements yet, you can't identify the variations between different set-ups, you don't understand the differences in applications, and so on. That's normal, it's just because you're so new to this… don't stress, this is all perfectly normal.

Does this not sound a bit flawed to you?

Nope, it sounds perfectly regular, really.

I can't complain, I don't believe I should know very much after two hours, but I should know SOMETHING. All I really know is how to breakfall, that's the only 'technique' I could rely on at the moment.

Honestly, that's more than most would have after two classes… really, all you've had so far is the tiniest of introductions. Embrace that, embrace that it's all new, and enjoy. Oh, but if I was to suggest one thing for you to focus on learning properly first, it'd be break falls… so that's a very good thing!

Again, I don't expect to know anything, but I expect to be able to recite the techniques I have learnt. Hell, maybe I just have memory issues, but I feel that I should be able to demonstrate ONE technique that we've learnt.

Why? Remembering isn't the point… you'll probably find, though, that as you start to gain more experience and understanding, and start moving towards your first grading (and beyond) that you'll be given certain things to practice… and, in that case, you'll need to know them. Right now, it's just not important.

Blocks don't really count in this respect as they seem to be the same (Of that type, that is), regardless of individual position.

The reason for the blocks being similar is to make it a skill, rather than a technique, which makes it a lot more reliable. You'll probably see different ones later, though.

Can you voice your opinion on this?

Sure. You're putting too much pressure on yourself, and have an unrealistic expectation of what learning a martial art is like. Relax… you don't have enough time in yet to be a rank beginner… you've only had an introduction (actually, I'd say you're still in the "introduction" period for the first two months or so… the equivalent of an 8 week introduction course, if you will).

EDIT: I believe I could recite more from these techniques that I just saw online and breezed over than I have in class. I only went over the white belt stuff. Traditional Jujitsu Moves and Ju Jitsu Techniques - Ultimate Jujitsu

Again, nothing to do with traditional Jujutsu at all there… but you'll probably find that it's not too dissimilar to the system you're doing.

Judo and akido is common in a jjj class. More than a bjj one for comparison.

Beg to differ here… Judo and Aikido (combinations thereof) are not common in a Japanese Jujutsu class… it's not uncommon for Western eclectic systems, though.

 

[MattofSilat]

Hi Matt,

I'm going to break this down, and see what you can get out of it. Hopefully this might help clear a few things up for you.



Eh, I wouldn't worry too much about the title of the thread… realistically, this could very easily have just been your next post in your existing thread, but this is fine as well.



How "big" do you mean? They're meant to be relatively loose fitting, but it shouldn't be something that you'll feel you need to "grow into"… especially for your first gi… commonly, they're fairly low-end, lighter material uniforms, so don't necessarily last all that long.



Yeah… what you're doing really isn't traditional Jujutsu at all… it's a modern eclectic Western system, based in Judo primarily, with some other ideas brought in… how you feel about that is, of course, up to you. Personally, I'd have some major reservations, but that's me.

Out of interest, though, how did you know that what you were doing was Aikido or Judo? Did the instructors identify it, or did you recognise something yourself?



I don't know that that indicates to me that there's any "combination of moves from three styles" there… no system is a single aspect, other than some weaponry systems… Judo and Aikido have striking methods, Karate etc have throws and locks…

As far as "everyone slowing down because of (you)", forget that entirely, as it's a completely baseless idea. Of course you aren't picking it all up immediately, no-one does. Neither did any of the more senior students when they started either, and they all remember what it's like to have a first class.



From what I've seen, I'd call them techniques, not kata… but that's quite a deeper topic, and a fair bit beyond where we need to be right now. In terms of the class, okay, not uncommon… sounds like about an hour class, then?



No, it's not reasonable to expect you to remember them… but then again, the only person who thinks you should be able to is you. The instructors don't. The system isn't designed for that, and the training doesn't really work that way. The idea is that you are being introduced to a new method of moving, which is learnt by repeating the actions of the system and it's techniques. You'll find that some things are repeated quite frequently (in this case, what sounds like a seio nage), so that each time you come back to it, it's more and more familiar. After doing techniques that contain it for 6 months or so, you'll start to see how the different techniques are teaching different set-ups for the throw… but for now, it's just getting used to the actions.



The purple belt has more experience… you have, what, 2 hours? As a result, he's able to identify aspects he recognises, even if he's never seen that way of approaching it before… which gives him a basis for discussing them. You're not used to the movements yet, you can't identify the variations between different set-ups, you don't understand the differences in applications, and so on. That's normal, it's just because you're so new to this… don't stress, this is all perfectly normal.



Nope, it sounds perfectly regular, really.



Honestly, that's more than most would have after two classes… really, all you've had so far is the tiniest of introductions. Embrace that, embrace that it's all new, and enjoy. Oh, but if I was to suggest one thing for you to focus on learning properly first, it'd be break falls… so that's a very good thing!



Why? Remembering isn't the point… you'll probably find, though, that as you start to gain more experience and understanding, and start moving towards your first grading (and beyond) that you'll be given certain things to practice… and, in that case, you'll need to know them. Right now, it's just not important.



The reason for the blocks being similar is to make it a skill, rather than a technique, which makes it a lot more reliable. You'll probably see different ones later, though.



Sure. You're putting too much pressure on yourself, and have an unrealistic expectation of what learning a martial art is like. Relax… you don't have enough time in yet to be a rank beginner… you've only had an introduction (actually, I'd say you're still in the "introduction" period for the first two months or so… the equivalent of an 8 week introduction course, if you will).



Again, nothing to do with traditional Jujutsu at all there… but you'll probably find that it's not too dissimilar to the system you're doing.



Beg to differ here… Judo and Aikido (combinations thereof) are not common in a Japanese Jujutsu class… it's not uncommon for Western eclectic systems, though.

Sadly, I don't have any choice really. Here's a total list of ALL Martial Arts places on my island. Note: Island. I can't find any others without Boats/Planes.

Sports Comission (Pure Sport, No Art, No S.D, A Bit Crap.)

Judo
Shotokan Karate
Boxing

Karate

Shotokan Karate
Enshin Karate

Anything else?

This Jujitsu school
An Aikido school, comprising of four 50+ year old men.

I'm a bit limited. Will going to this school benefit my JJJ? I know I'm probably jumping the gun considering, as I now understand from your post (Thanks for that) that I am still in the introduction stage, and should not expect anything of myself just yet.
I quite want to do JJJ, it's my art of choice at the moment (Well, Ancient Jujitsu, but I think JJJ is basically the same thing). I'd also quite like to do boxing, I don't really do any sport at the moment, and this school hasn't taught me any striking at all as of yet, while my friend says they don't really, so I think striking would be very good.

I recognised the Aikido by the wrist locks, and how the instructors said that you shouldn't need to apply any power at all.

 

[drop bear]

JJJ.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g6sZSC66ul4

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aXD9ZV9o54c

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eALLe1wghSA

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLSW8oxuBU

 

[Chris Parker]

Sadly, I don't have any choice really. Here's a total list of ALL Martial Arts places on my island. Note: Island. I can't find any others without Boats/Planes.

I didn't actually suggest changing, I was just pointing out that I wouldn't go there.

Sports Comission (Pure Sport, No Art, No S.D, A Bit Crap.)

Judo
Shotokan Karate
Boxing

Karate

Shotokan Karate
Enshin Karate

Anything else?

This Jujitsu school
An Aikido school, comprising of four 50+ year old men.

The one I'd go to would be Judo, but again, that's me… I'd recommend going to each and seeing what you think.

I'm a bit limited. Will going to this school benefit my JJJ?

What Japanese Jujutsu? You haven't done any yet…

I know I'm probably jumping the gun considering, as I now understand from your post (Thanks for that) that I am still in the introduction stage, and should not expect anything of myself just yet.

Yep.

I quite want to do JJJ, it's my art of choice at the moment (Well, Ancient Jujitsu, but I think JJJ is basically the same thing).

Japanese Jujutsu is Jujutsu from Japan… there are modern systems (I'd count both Judo and Aikido as "modern Jujutsu" systems, as, well, they are), including systems such as Hakko Ryu, Moto-ha Yoshin Ryu, and so on. Koryu (ancient) Jujutsu is something else entirely… and here's the thing. You will almost certainly have to travel or move for it. In some cases, you will have to go to Japan… the below linked videos include one of Takenouchi Ryu, and both the Soke and Sodenke lines don't have any branch dojo… there is one dojo for each, and they're in Japan. Koryu are not like other arts in many ways… I'd suggest, if that's what you're interested in, doing a lot of reading first. You might want to check out the "Koryu Corner" forum here.

I'd also quite like to do boxing, I don't really do any sport at the moment, and this school hasn't taught me any striking at all as of yet, while my friend says they don't really, so I think striking would be very good.

Boxing is great, and again, I'd highly recommend it. If possible, doing both boxing and Judo could be one of the best options considering your situation, depending on schedules and so forth.

I recognised the Aikido by the wrist locks, and how the instructors said that you shouldn't need to apply any power at all.

Yeah… that's not really anything to do with whether or not something is Aikido, though. Aikido is a specific approach and methodology which happens to focus on joint locks… it's not unique in that regard, nor in the lack of emphasis on power… many jujutsu systems also have that (Daito Ryu, Asayama Ichiden Ryu, Bokuden Ryu etc).

You haven't mentioned how old you are in any of your posts, but I get the impression that you're in high school, is that correct? That'd place you in your mid-late teens, yeah? If that's the case, you have lots and lots of time… for now, just find something you enjoy… you can always change later when you have more flexibility.

JJJ.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g6sZSC66ul4

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aXD9ZV9o54c

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eALLe1wghSA

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLSW8oxuBU

Not entirely… The first one, yeah. It's Daito Ryu (a different expression than the lines I'm familiar with, but still quite easy to recognise), the last one is Takenouchi Ryu, believed to be the oldest Jujutsu-centric system in Japan (although it is really a sogo bujutsu, or composite martial system, as it contains quite a large weaponry syllabus as well&#8230. It should be noted, however, that Takenouchi Ryu has two different syllabus' that are seen as "Jujutsu", what is seen in most of that clip is the Torite Koshinomawari (Kogusoku Koshinomawari), which is focused on using short blades (Kogusoku)… the more "unarmed" section is known as Hade (Kenpo Taijutsu), a small part of which is seen in the last minute of the clip.

The third is basically early Judo… but the second is not Japanese Jujutsu at all, really. It's a modern eclectic Western system (you can tell by the attacks) using Judo as a basis.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

As others have said, don't worry about the fact that it seems overwhelming at first. You'll start to see many of the same techniques and concepts come up over and over again until they become familiar. If you were taking private lessons, the instructor might go a little slower and break down the individual steps for you a bit more, but you will pick it up before too long anyway. Give it time.

What you are identifying as "judo" and "aikido" are probably just part of the regular syllabus in your particular school of jujutsu, not separate arts. What you are training is a modern European eclectic approach to jujutsu which is historically mostly (but not entirely) derived from early judo.

BTW - despite what Chris says, your instructors are not consciously lying to you if they describe what you are learning as "traditional Japanese Jujutsu." To most martial artists, "traditional" means "the way that I learned it twenty years ago" (although they often imagine that it goes back farther) and "Japanese" means that the art has roots which go back to Japan. Chris has spent a lot of time studying the history of Japanese martial arts. To him, "traditional" means "going back centuries within a certain cultural framework" and "Japanese" means "not just the roots, but this specific style was developed in Japan by Japanese practitioners."

Anyway, don't worry right now about whether your school matches some hypothetical ideal you've gotten from books. If you are enjoying it, then keep training and learning. You'll have the opportunity to explore other arts down the line.

 

[Xue Sheng]

MattofSilat

I did a few years of JJJ as a kid (way back with dinosaurs walked the earth) and it sounds fine to me my instructor had a black belt in Judo and Karate as well and he was a master fencer too so I am sure there was stuff mixed in and that was way back in the early 70s so I don't think it is all that uncommon.

The only thing I can remember about the first few classes was I spent a lot of time falling down and rolling...and we didn't have matts so...enjoy the training