Moy Yat Ving Tsun
- Thread starter Spartan
- Start date
KamonGuy2
Master of Arts
http://www.moyyat.com/
Wikipedia has a load of info as well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moy_Yat
The system looks like the standard wing chun system, but what lets it down is the many quotes stating that his is a true version of wing chun and taken directly from Yip Man
It is these kind of statements that don't benefit the wing chun world at all
If you join up, please let us know of your experiences
Wikipedia has a load of info as well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moy_Yat
The system looks like the standard wing chun system, but what lets it down is the many quotes stating that his is a true version of wing chun and taken directly from Yip Man
It is these kind of statements that don't benefit the wing chun world at all
If you join up, please let us know of your experiences
- Thread Starter
- #3
What would you say the average time frame was for a student of this style to become an instructor?
I talked w/ a guy in my area who's starting up a club and apparently has only had a couple of years training. I then checked his instructor's website and it seemed that this was average timeline for student to instructor progression.
It freaked me out a little because w/ such a small time constraint, that school would seem to fall into the "McDojo" category. How could I evaluate whether this is a quality wing chun school?
Spartan
I talked w/ a guy in my area who's starting up a club and apparently has only had a couple of years training. I then checked his instructor's website and it seemed that this was average timeline for student to instructor progression.
It freaked me out a little because w/ such a small time constraint, that school would seem to fall into the "McDojo" category. How could I evaluate whether this is a quality wing chun school?
Spartan
A great sifu will tell you that there is not any definite timeline. If you are focused on a goal in the big picture, you won't reach it. As in, if becoming a master is your main goal to WC, you will never do so. To progress with WC is to focus on the little picture. Only think about what you have learned and what you may practice tonight.
I have to agree with you on the McDojo comment. I know that my school only has the sifu and the number 1 student. This works well.
CheukMo
Orange Belt
I agree with Brocklee. It is highly unlikely that one could become a good sifu within two years. Bruce Lee didn't come close to it and he studied for a little more than three. Find a good school and focus on whatever they teach you. If it's just the (horse) stance, study that until they teach you something else. A good sifu will know when you are ready for the next step.
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
My Cuong Nhu Sensei was cross training in Moy Yat. It took him four years to get to Bil Jee, not learn it, but get to it.
Also, Kamon Guy mentioned that Moy Yat claims to be the "true Wing Chun", but don't most Yip Man lines claim that?
Also, Kamon Guy mentioned that Moy Yat claims to be the "true Wing Chun", but don't most Yip Man lines claim that?
Yes. Both claim to be the true WC. Most styles of WC claim to be the true one. They are all correct too! All of them are true WC, with different ideas and different masters. WC is just a tool that is taught to a wielder. It's how the wielder uses that tool to over come the opponent that matters.
Everyone seems to love arguing over which WC is the true one. That's because of big ego.
Danny T
Senior Master
Excellent Brocklee!!
Wing Chun is a "Training System" not a fighting style! The training system builds the attributes of the individual to what is best for that individual. If a one arm person wanted to training WC could he not be trained? Certainly but his training and style would be different than someone with two arms. His style would most certainly be different yet he would still be true wing chun.
The style is the individual and anyone training to fight like someone else is doing themselves a disservice. It is well known that Yip Man trained his students differently in specific areas. Their basics are all the same and each was then trained in a manner reflective on the individual's ability and attributes. The individual using their abilities in the most direct and efficient manner at any one particular point in time and space utilizing the principles of the WC system is their true Wing Chun. The system doesn't do the fighting nor does the style. It is the individual utilizing what they have learn within the system based upon that individual's abilities that does the fighting.
The rest is either Ego, Politics, or Marketing.
Danny T
- Thread Starter
- #9
I ran across this martial arts website where the instructor has a video of himself working with a wooden dummy. If you go to www.tabermartialarts.com you can see it under the staff section.
What do you think? Does this guy have good form? I ask as one who's never studied Wing Chun.
Spartan
What do you think? Does this guy have good form? I ask as one who's never studied Wing Chun.
Spartan
I can't see the vid for some reason but from reading the link, its just him freestyling on the dummy. When it comes to how someones form looks...it is going to look different from person to person depending on their height, build and ability to move freely. The only things that you want to look for when someone is pretty much just practicing moves (this guy calls it freestyling 
) is structure, whether or not the shoulders dip, and if the heads bobbing or not. Other then that, as long as hes doing some sort of strike, block or kick...hes going to be doing it right.
) is structure, whether or not the shoulders dip, and if the heads bobbing or not. Other then that, as long as hes doing some sort of strike, block or kick...hes going to be doing it right.KamonGuy2
Master of Arts
Ouch.....
There is no true wing chun - that is a bad bad statement. How do you judge what is true and what is not? Some schools suggest that Yip Man was not doing true wing chun. Indeed, he learnt wing chun under different instructors in his time before adding bits to the system.
As for length of time training, it depends on what you are aiming for. I started teaching after four years. This was every day for four years. I have known people who are worse fighters who have trained longer and better fighters who have trained less!
I do think two years is a bit quick though - you need a bit of time for muscle memory to set in.
There is no true wing chun - that is a bad bad statement. How do you judge what is true and what is not? Some schools suggest that Yip Man was not doing true wing chun. Indeed, he learnt wing chun under different instructors in his time before adding bits to the system.
As for length of time training, it depends on what you are aiming for. I started teaching after four years. This was every day for four years. I have known people who are worse fighters who have trained longer and better fighters who have trained less!
I do think two years is a bit quick though - you need a bit of time for muscle memory to set in.
Well, this is a good example of whether the glass is half full or half empty. Once again, it comes down to ego. Everyone claims they are the correct way, and of course they do. How would you make money if you said, "My style is the incorrect way. If getting your butt kicked is what you yearn for, then please....sign here
" lol Sure, someone will say "It's not about the money" but honestly it is. Ip Man didn't enjoy teach classes, from what was passed to me, but he needed to in order to survive. So really, all wing chun is the correct wing chun. As long as it follows the guidelines the grandmaster created. WT is a different story
lol that was a joke
Danny T
Senior Master
So is it ok to add or even subtract? Will it still be Wing Chun?
Over the years a of number elements were added to the Wing Chun system. When that happened was it no longer true Wing Chun?
Danny T
- Thread Starter
- #14
I have to say that from everything I've read and heard said, WC is the most theoretically advanced system I've ever come across.
It seems only natural that the theories and teachings of Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do would have spawned from a system like Wing Chun Gung Fu.
Spartan
It seems only natural that the theories and teachings of Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do would have spawned from a system like Wing Chun Gung Fu.
Spartan
KamonGuy2
Master of Arts
That's what I mean - there is no 'true' wing chun. I bet that you would never find two federations that were completely identical
It doesn't make wing chun bad and there are certainly some schools that teach nunchakus or escrima as part of the syllabus, despite being from other arts. I don't feel that you could add elements from other arts and still call it wing chun.
In Kamon we train BJJ and boxing, but that is a separate entity. We don't tan sao and then throw in a right hook for example.
I disagree with you Brocklee on your statement that no instructor will say their school isn't the best. I am most certainly not the best wing chunner by any means. Even my sifu Kevin Chan would never claim to be the best. That is for other people to decide. I would certainly say that he is one of the most forward thinking martial artist I have seen.
When I train BJJ I get taught by blue belts rather than black belts because blue belts can be far better teachers
I would feel very sad if I heard any wing chunner claiming to be the best.
Every wing chun school has something to offer. Even WT> I have heard a lot of bad things about them, but if they give pleasure and enjoyment to a young man or woman, then does it matter?
I think if people have a claim, they should stand by the claim. I once said that I was an okay fighter, so one of my MT friends enlisted me in a MMA tournament. I came third. The next time, I won. If people come down asking how good I am, I tell them that that is what I have done so far and I still hope to keep going.
Yet even then, I am not the best fighter by a long shot and would never tell people that.
Brocklee - please name and shame those people who claim that as they shouldn't be getting away with it
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
Why not?
You can add elements from other arts as long as they stay withing the boundries of WC. You wouldn't add a move if you knew that it would either break the rules of structure, cause you to forfeit your line, or require you to dip your shoulders. There are other guidelines but I just wanted to list a few.
I don't understand why not also? We have hooks, and they're pretty effective because they come from below the opponent's viewing path and very sneaky because the shoulder doesn't dip.
Thats good, it's your right to disagree and I appreciate your honesty. One thing however, pay more attention to the text I'm posting. You added context by saying "school isnt the best.". I never said anything about not being the best. I stated it as knowing the incorrect way
So I guess your reply to that is pointless. <---not trying to make you mad Kamon, I enjoy your posts.When I train BJJ I get taught by blue belts rather than black belts because blue belts can be far better teachers
I wouldn't care if someone thought they we're the best. It wouldn't be very WC of them though because a WC fighter should be a humble fighter, expecting to lose and fighting to win. This is why we grasp onto staying relaxed and watching everything as it happens. Like the crane.
I agree with you on every school has something to offer. Good or bad, it has something to offer.
Yeah, I don't have a clue what your getting at or asking or stating but good job on the win.
bcbernam777
Brown Belt
I think that there is a true Wing Chun and a false Wing Chun. Whilst there maybe many variations on the forms and technique, the "Trueness" of the Wing Chun science lies not in these variations, but in the proper energy development. If a practicioner of Wing Chun develops the proper energy coupled with the proper understanding of the principles that have a comanality in most schools of Wing Chun, then he is studying true Wing Chun, if however they are simply taking the hands of Wing chun without the proper development of energy then they are not studying true Wing Chun. The heart of Wing Chun is not technique, it is energy, and the application of that energy.
Respectfully
Mark
