moving shoulder

[PeaceWarrior]

I was wondering, I have seen many clips of people doing wing chun, and while usually their technique looks ok, a lot of times when they punch they put their shoulder into it without unifying this movement with the hips. is this bad wing chun technique? shouldnt the shoulder remain relaxed and stationary (not flexing) while the feet move the waist and the waist turns the body which would give extention? when these ppl punched it seemed way too "upper body" is there some way of punching that would give the illusion of this?

thanks

Peace

 

[monji112000]

I don't 100% follow you, maybe post a clip and I could comment on it. are you talking about chain punching?

 

[EternalSpringtime]

I don't 100% follow you, maybe post a clip and I could comment on it. are you talking about chain punching?

Maybe it's the shoulder when performing passive moves like Tan Sao and Bong Sao. especially the Bong Sao. I remember my instructor makes me chain punch 1000 time in one set until my shoulder is dead . Then he tells me to punch or perform a Bong Sao and it's much more better since the shoulder is not involved in the extension process. Wing Chun moves comes fromthe extension of the forearm as I were told, but many lineages have differences in the footwork part and the basic stance way of taking position in the Sui Lim Tao.

I know that some lineages exerts pressure of the front part of the feet in the basic position, while others exerts it on the back part. I think there is a big difference in doing this thing since it changes the way you advance through your opponent center and using your whole body into every single punch you exerts.

so, where does the pressure should be?, any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[bcbernam777]

I was wondering, I have seen many clips of people doing wing chun, and while usually their technique looks ok, a lot of times when they punch they put their shoulder into it without unifying this movement with the hips. is this bad wing chun technique? shouldnt the shoulder remain relaxed and stationary (not flexing) while the feet move the waist and the waist turns the body which would give extention? when these ppl punched it seemed way too "upper body" is there some way of punching that would give the illusion of this?

thanks

Peace

The shoulder (or rather the surrounding muscle tissue) should not move, the ultimate aim is to simply have the shoulder simply rotate in the socket, this means a heavier reliance on the SLT energy to support the arms instead of the tense shoulder trying to force its own agenda, everything flows from the stance. If the shoulder moves its smiply means that this type of motion has not been achieved probably from incorrect interpretations of the SLT,.

 

[monji112000]

I am always lost when people talk about the shoulder not moving. Even my Sifu told me this and I didn't understand him for a long time.. then I asked him to tell me what the heck he is talk about.


He would always say relax the shoulder, don't use the shoulder. In his ok but wrong translation he was trying to get me to relax my whole neck area down to my shoulder area.. not meaning that my shoulder muscles should not be used or flexed with moving.. thats physically impossible. Which I knew, and I logically knew that he didn't mean what he was saying. You shouldn't have more tension that what is needed to move. Another odd translation is the extension of the shoulder. its found in the second form.
This doesn't mean to some how extend your arm with your “shoulder”. Its a odd way of saying extend your should(and your arm) with your shoulder blade muscle. This is a very powerful muscle and adds a large amount of linear power that can be combined with your horse power. I know that some Linages outside of the Applied Wing Chun and Lo Man Kam don't use this type of power generation. I have had people tell me its not “Wing Chun”..


its really very inspiring when you chi sao with someone who can put such a great deal of forward pressure and then easily become soft as pillow and control/ redirect.


Allot of people think Chi sao is Hard or soft.. well its both depending on the need. JMO:soapbox:

 

[Si-Je]

I was wondering, I have seen many clips of people doing wing chun, and while usually their technique looks ok, a lot of times when they punch they put their shoulder into it without unifying this movement with the hips. is this bad wing chun technique? shouldnt the shoulder remain relaxed and stationary (not flexing) while the feet move the waist and the waist turns the body which would give extention? when these ppl punched it seemed way too "upper body" is there some way of punching that would give the illusion of this?

I've seen some people punch in this manner online and in classes. Your correct that the shoulders and hips remain facing the same direction and stationary. Punching really comes from the elbows more than the shoulders.

For extention you flex your back or straighten your entire spine while punching. Sticking your chest out and forward as you punch to give more extention and power. Thus, your power comes from your entire body when you flex the spine forward as you punch. Still, your shoulders are square and relaxed.

Now if they are pivoting as they punch this may give the "illusion" of throwing the shoulder forward. As you pivot the feet the hips and shoulders pivot in unison with the feet.
Maybe some camra angles are not showing enough of the foot work when they are punching and pivoting, (only showing from the waist up for example) and thus making it seem as if their throwing their shoulder into it.

Plus, there are many schools that DO turn the shoulder into the punch. I personally wouldn't consider that good WC/WT technique, only because it's just too much extra movement, and offsets your balance in a way that makes it eaiser to manipulate by an opponent.